Committee Chair Question: Handling conflict of interest

[Once_Eagle-Always_Eagle 10]

Would you have done the same if you were committee chair?

 

For background:

1) I am the committee chair of Pack 1.

2) We also have a Troop 1.

3) About 1 year ago, Troop 2 split from Troop 1 because the leaders didn't share the same vision for what a troop should be.

4) Last month during JSN, Pack 2 was formed.

 

I sent the following email to my asst Webelo Leader:

 

====================

 

Dear :

 

Over the last several months, we have grown at odds with each other and the tension between us has arguably increased. To speak to my side of the equation- looking at it from Pack 1s position- I have grown increasingly concerned about what I perceive to be a conflict of interest on your part.

I have seen you at numerous community festivals with Troop 2.

I understand you attend high adventure outings and other campouts with them

I understand you fundraise with them performing show and sell- selling more than 10K in show and sell popcorn.

I understand that as an individual parent, you contributed zero dollars in popcorn sales to Pack 1.

I remember that during sales of the discount cards, you sold hundreds of dollars in scout cards on behalf of unit 2, yet I think 8 cards were credited to unit 1.

During recruiting, you were instrumental in recruiting to establish Pack 2.

You are on the pack committee for Pack 2.

You are the webmaster for Pack 2.

You are the webmaster for Troop 2.

You are the treasurer for Troop 2.

With our permission, you have solicited other scouts to join you on Troop 2 outings.

 

While I appreciate your enthusiasm for scouting, your position as an Asst Webelo Leader in Pack 1 raises a potential conflict of interest to your loyalties of our pack, and ultimately, our unit suffers because your passion for scouting is clearly directed to other units. You have expressed your interest in remaining in Pack 1, particularly because started with this pack and has friends in this unit. I can respect that and am not discouraging nor prohibiting from remaining active in Pack 1. However, after sharing my concerns with our chartered org representative, I would respectfully ask you to remove yourself as a leader in Pack 1 and continue your role simply as a parent.

 

I am certain my email is going to greatly upset you, so I am willing to have a meeting with you along with our chartered org rep, our cub master, the Webelo leader, or any other members of the committee if you desire.

 

Finally, I will assume responsibility to ensure the Webelo campout to happens without interruption, but at this time you are not approved to lead the boys on this outing.

 

Thank you for your passion for scouting, I only wish it were to the benefit of our unit.

 

With sadness,

 

 

 

[moosetracker 132]

gutsy of you.. But, I guess I would have taken the path of talking to the COR first and maybe the cub master. I would like to see if they agree with my point of view, and see which way they would appreciate the subject approached.

 

I fear with no heads up they are going to get HIS side of the story and his anger and without coming to terms with what you are looking at take his side. Then you will be trying to dig yourself out of a hole..

 

I do not agree that all crossovers are to move to their respective CO's troop, but I dislike when Adult Leaders use their influence to steer them away from their respective CO's troop.. I more feel the webelos should visit more then one troop, with no influence from anyone and choose a program they think is a better fit for them.

 

Maybe an impossible dream, given that adults have a hard time letting our youth make their own decisions...

[Eamonn 61]

"Would you have done the same if you were committee chair?"

I most certainly would never have sent this letter!

Ea.

 

[Scoutfish 16]

I totally get what you are saying, and I totally agree with it. If being a member/ leader(?) of Pack 2 is interfearing with the duties of being a Webelos ADL of Pack 1.

 

Being part of Troop 2 is a different story all together. Packs and Troops are two different tings entirely and as Cub Scout leaders, it is our job to have our future scouts look at ALL troops to find the best fit even though it may not benefit our own CO's troop.

 

Yeah, you want them to join your own troop, but the scouts best interest is to find the best troop, not just the one your CO charters.

 

Now, I can see another possibilitry here. The ADL may want to finish their leader obligation to Pack 1 by staying a leader until the Webelos finish the year or cross out.

 

I get that too. Everybody has their own line even if it does not match our version of it.

 

Case in point, we had a leader and his committee wife leave us and start up another pack. We hated to see him go, but almost broke out in song when she left. (Ding dong, the witch is gone! )

 

So, they left because she left. She left because she found out that she could not be the emporer supreme of teh pack and that everybody else wasn't going to bend over backwaards and kiss her back side.

 

But, when they started teh new pack for their own reasons..it also immensely helped the community for scouting reasons. It created a pack that was chartered 12 miles closer than any other pack ever was. This pack is on the beach island ..which makes a HUGE difference if you ever had to del with summer traffic and draw bridges that open every hour on the hour.

 

If it wasn't for the fact that I was already a CM of my pack, on the district committee and District camp promotions for Cub Scouts as well as a troop MBC..I would offer to help that new pack by being a DL or ADL.

 

At first,a few members of of our leadership and committee couldn't understand why i would go help "the enemy" out..But when I explained that it wasn't about "us or them" but instead, it was about the scouts and helping a new pack out with experience leadership and pack experience...everybody understood it completely.

 

And that is what it is about ( to me at least) I have no desire to work with her again...although I enjoy working with her husband.

 

But I really enjoy working with kids. I want to see that pack excell for the sake ofb the kids. I want those kids to have a blast and enjoy scouting as much as they can.

 

But as I said..I have just enough under my belt right now. I do not need any more.

 

 

[Basementdweller 608]

I don't get what the big deal is about?????

 

The Scouter wants to be in Pack 2 and that is great.....The CC of Pack 1 is preventing the scouter from recruiting the webelos from Pack 1 into Troop 2.

 

I don't see a problem with it......you said your piece.

 

Just curious, What is the rest of the Committee's stance on this matter???? Did you discuss it with them??????

[Once_Eagle-Always_Eagle 10]

Prior to composing the email, I notified the CoR and the cubmaster and we all agreed. I *did* find out after sending it that while the CoR agreed with the decision to remove him as leader, he preferred that I do it in person rather than through email... so I have to figure out how I can recover from that.

 

The problems I had can be reduced to this:

1) The asst webelo leader wasn't trying to ensure our Webelos visisted all troop units in town (we have 3). He was significantly biased to Troop 2. I'm not saying the boys need to go to Troop 1 either, but I believe they deserve equal opportunity. The leader was using our pack as a recruiting field for his troop without consideration of giving the boys equal exposure to all the units.

 

2) To be honest, a lot of my concern has to do with the finances.

2a) Our district/council allocates initial scout cards/show & sell popcorn based on historical sales. By selling for these other units, our ability to obtain future allocations of cards/popcorn is reduced.

2b) Although his son is a Webelo 1 in Pack 1, his sales efforts were directed to Troop 2 who received the financial benefit of his sales effort. This is primarily because the father and son regularly attend campouts with the troop and need the money to fund the trips with the troop.

2c) This dad spent considerable efforts organizing fundraising for Troop 2 leading them to more than 10K in sales in our most recent fundraiser. His passion for generating sales caused Troop/Pack 2 to lead the district in sales (for cards and popcorn). To be entirely transparent, I am hurt that he and his son are in our unit but he is leading the "other unit's" sales efforts.

 

3) I have some concerns about how this leader was interacted with boys, but I wanted to keep my letter objective rather than subjective. It was easier for me to point to the things I did than to argue over things that would have been received as a subjective personal attack. Examples include:

3a) Calling the boys 'stupid' because they couldn't tie a square knot

3b) He said he would not sign off or approve any boy for the Webelo requirements unless the boys MEMORIZED the Boy Scout Oath/Law (I realize this may be a point of controversy here too... but the requirements state the boy is able to "Explain" I interpret this that the boys have to understand the meaning of the words and be able to EXPLAIN it in their own words. While I encourage the boys to memorize them and we actively recite them at the opening of every Webelo Den meeting, it is not a requirement for the boys to MEMORIZE it to complete the rank requirements.)

 

[Scoutfish 16]

Like I said..I understand what you feel and why.

 

My biggest point was that as a current ADL, he may may be honoring his commitment to complete the year as a ADL instead up just quiting on the spot and leaving you looking for another ADL.

 

He may be planning on going to pack 2 or troop 2 as soon as the boys complete the year or cross over, but doesn't want to leave you hig and dry in the mean time.

 

As for the Scout Oath and Law... They do have to memorize it:

 

In the Webelos Handbook- page 63, Arrow of Light requirements, #2

 

" Repeat from memory and explain in your own words the scout Oath or Promise andthe 12 points of the Scout Law. Tell how you have practiced them in your everyday life. "

[Once_Eagle-Always_Eagle 10]

These boys are new Webelo 1 scouts working toward their Webelo rank. From page 49, requirement "7B" is to "Explain the Scout Oath, Scout Law, Scout motto and Scout Slogan."

 

The requirements on page 63 are for the Arrow of Light- to be achieved AFTER a boy earns his Webelo badge.

 

In other words, I take it as a progression. In order to get their Webelo rank, they have to understand the meaning of the words. I could have my son learn the scout law in Russian too, but it wouldn't mean anything if he doesn't understand the meaning of the words. I am teaching our boys what does it mean to be 'reverent' Not one boy knew the definition of the word without being taught. Now when they MEMORIZE the scout law as part of the Arrow of Light, they will understand the meaning of the words they are learning and repeating from memory.

 

But you cannot rightfully withhold the Webelo rank because the boy has not memorized the scout oath/law- which is clearly an Arrow of Light requirement (pg 63), NOT a Webelo badge requirement (pg 49).

 

[Scoutfish 16]

Yeah, you are right, I guess I was reading your post as if they were second year Webelos. Turns out that it doesn't actually say either way, so I guess I was just assuming since my son is a second year Webelos.

[ScoutNut 147]

This person is the ASSISTANT WebeloS (please don't forget the Scouts!) leader. Where is the Webelos leader in all of this?

 

The Webelos den leader is in charge of the den. The assistant is his - well, assistant. Yes, they should be working together, but the den leader should have the final say, or at least SOME say, in the den he is the main leader for.

 

Also, where is the Cubmaster? It is part of his job to guide the den leaders and to make sure all of the Scouts receive a quality, BSA program.

 

Did anyone speak to this person about these issues and try to work it out with him prior to sending out this email?

 

>>"The requirements on page 63 are for the Arrow of Light- to be achieved AFTER a boy earns his Webelo badge."

[Papadaddy 121]

No offense intended, but you asked for honest advice. If I had received this letter/email, I would have told you to "kiss off". What I choose to do with my time and money is nobody's business, unless it's a YP issue. Nobody signs a "loyalty oath" to support only one unit. If my performance is not satisfactory, then simply decline to renew my registration in your unit. A litany of excuses and alleged transgressions is not necessary. If the success of your unit depends on one ADL, you have more serious problems.

[Once_Eagle-Always_Eagle 10]

No offense taken. It's clearly not a black and white issue (at least not to me). And once again to be transparent, I don't feel 100% good about it. On the other hand, there are few things I do feel 100% certain of.

 

To me it *is* an issue of loyalty... and while you didn't profess a loyalty oath, it is the second principle in the scout law "A scout is trustworthy, LOYAL, ..."

 

His loyalty is to the other units- and I assert that loyalty is ultimately hurting the boys in our unit. Here's how it plays out. When I refer to finances, it's not about a big bank account. We're non profit and the difference between money in vs money out was $500 last year. BUT, money raised through fund raisers determines the types of activities we can perform and how much we can do for the boys.

 

1) By not directing his fundraising efforts to his home unit, we don't benefit from his sales efforts. That money is not available for our activities and resources for OUR boys to use. (Not a deal in and of itself, there are other boys that don't fund raise too, but they don't raise money for the other units.)

2) Second, his aggressive sales efforts limit our own ability to raise funds. For example, I called the local grocery store about selling scout cards in front of the store to discover that he had reserved every weekend for the OTHER unit through the duration of the fundraiser.

3) The money that he helps generate for the other units allows them to offer more activities, more 'cool' destinations and at a lower cost. When comparing units, boys will gravitate to the other unit because their destinations are better and at a lower cost.

 

And while removing him as leader won't change his ability to direct his fundraising where he wishes, this will slightly level the playing field. As a leader in our unit, he has access to all of our boys and their contact information, and he sits in the committee meetings where we plan our recruiting and fundraising ideas. It is my belief he then uses this as intelligence to give the other unit a competitive advantage.

 

When all is said and done, I want to put forth the highest quality program for my boys and for my charter org. My success does not hinge on one person, but one of my leaders does not share our goal of making our unit the best it can be- and if you're not on the side of making our unit the best, then I want to fill the position with someone who is.

 

 

[SeattlePioneer 144]

Frankly, I wouldn't hesitate to fire the Assistant Webelos Den Leader. He's made it clear where his loyalties lie.

 

Using his position to undermine the program is not what being a leader is about.

 

That may not solve all the problem, but it at least clarifies the issue.

[Beavah 205]

Yah, hmmm...

 

To be sure, one of da duties of an official in any organization is a duty of loyalty. And as a volunteer leader, even as an ADL, there is a duty of loyalty to da pack and the CO. Of course, as a treasurer and volunteer for Troop 2, there is also a duty of loyalty there, eh? An individual should be conscious of any potential conflicts of interest, for sure. But at da same time, most conflicts can be dispensed with simply by the individual conscientiously disclosing those potential conflicts, and managing 'em with some sense of honor. Da presence of a potential conflict by itself doesn't usually preclude service.

 

So yeh say da fellow sells a lot of popcorn for the troop. That's not a conflict, so long as he's still doing his duty as an ADL. It's just a choice of how to best direct his efforts. Your unit doesn't have a claim on his efforts unless yeh specify a minimum sales amount for leaders. Da fact that you wish he'd sell more for you is not only irrelevant, it's just greed. Except for da foolish way your council has set things up so that units compete with each other. There, if his actions really affect da pack negatively, the conflict is real, but I'd address it by gettin' da council to stop that silly practice, since it's not really that fellow's fault. A thrifty parent is naturally goin' to work where the benefit is best for their family,mwhich is almost always goin' to be a troop because da expenses are higher.

 

As an ADL, I reckon if the fellow simply discloses to other webelos families that he's affiliated with Troop 2 then they can make their own decisions about whether to take his positions with a grain of salt. Particularly if there's a DL or CM who is affiliated with Troop 1 . Of course da CO can choose to remove a leader for any reason, includin' lack of affiliation with their troop.

 

Generally speaking', though, I'd never take this sort of action by email, and I'd never consider it at all until there had been several earlier conversations, first informally as an individual, then more pointedly as a small group with da CM and COR, then fully formally with da COR and perhaps IH.

 

Beavah

 

 

[OwntheNight 10]

I find myself in this position.

I am CM for Pack 1, our CO has a Troop also.

I'm an ASM for Troop 2, which has a different CO.

 

When Scoutson was deciding what Troop he wanted to join, it literally came down to Troop 1 and Troop 2. The differences between the 2 were so minimal, that my son had a hard time deciding where to go. He finally decided on Troop 2 after a lot of back and forth. I actually felt more pressure to join Troop 2, because of the friendships I developed with our WDL and the ASM's of the troop.

 

When I go back to being a WDL, after my term as CM expires, I have to be very careful to not show favoritism towards Troop 2, even though my loyalty does lie with them. Having that loyalty does force me to make sure I give all of our WEB's the opportunity to visit many troops, so that the Scout can make his own choice. I don't want to be accused of unfair treatment and favoritism for the benefit of the Troop. Our WEB II DL's did this last year, since they knew they were going with Troop 2. They actually talked down about Troop 1, and dissuaded boys from visiting Troop 1. I found this out from parents after the boys crossed over, when I took over as CM in February.

 

Was there ever a conversation with you, the AWDL, the CM, and COR about his expanded duties with Pack 2? Maybe a scope of terms could have been addressed with him about that role. Was he asked to help in the setup of that pack from somebody? Did he feel like he wanted to have a bigger role in Scouting, and this pack gave him that opportunity? I know this is Devils' Advocate stuff, but..Did your pack offer those same opportunities to him? Does he have a son still in Pack 1, and maybe didn't want to move him to another pack, because of the friendships he's developed in your Pack? These are probably questions that won't get answered now because of him being removed from your Pack.

 

When our pack was imploding from within last year, basically the CC and the Asst Tiger DL not being able to work together. The one thing that keeps coming up from those incidents, was a lack of communication between all parties involved. So many things, could have been handled differently if we were able to effectively communicate with each other, instead of hearsay and innuendo.