Forgot your password?
Webelosmom, September 26, 2002 in Open Discussion - Program
The "In the South" thing is bigoted crap.
There is nothing that bars females from participating. I do know of some COs that prefer male leadership but none that ban females. (Other than the aformentioned Mormon units.)
If ladies shouldn't hear what comes out of a scouts mouth, then it should never come out of a scouts mouth. Period, end of discussion. There is no justification to allows kids to behave like cads and boors. Right on Benny.
Moms are more than welcome to attend any trip they feel confident enough to attend. I state it that way because the trips are planned to the scouts ability and comfort levels and not the parents. Some people (of both sexes) have a much higher comfort requirement than young boys.
And by the way, can we please quit bashing Mormons? They seem to continually be the convenient "Bad Guys" of the scouting movement.
I do believe we Southerners have been insulted by the folks over in those Texas troops! 'Tain't no such thing as "you DO have to remember that you're in the South." That seems to be a regional bias on their part, and not a very complimentary one. Here in Florida we have many female leaders in all levels of Boy Scouting. We camp, we head up summer camps even! I am very involved in my son's troop. I sincerely hope that you can find ways to be involved, too, besides baking. MB counselor is a good way to start, and I pray they use you as such. Look for other ways to be of assistance. It sounds very much like whatever training these men may have had (have they?), they edited out whatever didn't fit their belief system. Too bad - they cheat the troop and community by doing so. Should you make waves? I see you've already made the correct decision: it's all about your son, not you. Can you possibly change things? Maybe, in a discreet fashion. Pigheadedness will not alter in direct confrontation, does it? I hope you try. God bless you.
No Morman bashing intended. My wife is still Morman. She just has problems with their rules they impose but have no intention of following.
So you want to push the envelope without embarrassing your son. Then try this. Give up on going camping with the troop, and becoming an ASM is probably a losing battle here. Instead, apply to become a merit badge counselor for the district. To really make the point, pick merit badges like pioneering, hiking, camping, etc. Maybe even look for district activities that you can be involved in. Make your presence known without getting in direct conflict with the troop. Who knows, as scouts come to you for merit badges you may even soften up the troop's attitude and be able to get a more active role within the troop eventually.
PS: Now I know I am in trouble. I'm getting hooked on these forums. I'm beginning to post to threads that do not directly involve me. Next thing you know I will have 1000's of postings listed next to my name........
"The BSA does not bar females. However it does not require them to be included"
Come on Bob, Reading way too much into this. If a Mom wants to go let her go as long as she follows the rules who knows she might be a future ASM and we can all use a few more of these in each troop. Lighten up!!
In defense of Texas, it is a rather LARGE state and would prefer that blanket statements not be made about it OR the South. I am an ASM for my son's troop and although due to other siblings do not attend campouts, other mom's regularly do. The only adult in our troop that is CPR trained is a woman and the troop is really glad that she is. I only know of one troop (and it might be a rumor) that discourages women from camping. I don't think they have an outright ban though. It might be something worth discussing with your district executive. If enough mom's complain, then maybe some pressure will be put on them to be a little more open minded.
I was not stating my preference only that the BSA does not discriminate against women participating, but that it allows Chartered Organizations the right to choose.
I would never tell any parent or legal guardian that they could not go camping, as long as they behaved according to the rules of the program.
Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)(This message has been edited by Bob White)
I am sorry, but I am going to go ahead and defend the Texas troop. If you have enough male involvement from the adults then leave it at that! I understand in some troops there just isn't enough help from males to ask females not to camp. This troop isn't asking you not to be involved, they are asking you not to camp. There are plenty of ways for you to help out in other ways. In my several years of scouts I never liked having somebody else's mom on the trip. Even if that mom stayed out of the picture I would rather it be a male. To me Boy Scouts was the one place I went to escape females and the real world in general. It was "guy time". I know first hand that I am not an exception. I have sat around several campfires with older boys and held this very conversation. All of the boys I have known feel the same way. As long as we have enough males going on the trip lets keep it that way! I also know some females that were active in the troop but never went camping with us unless it was a "family trip". Many of these females will tell you that they think it is better for the men to teach the boys and watch them. Who better to shape boys into young men than men who have been there before? Honestly now, is it that horrible that they don't want women going on the camping trips?(This message has been edited by YoungBlood)
There seems to be a number of topics being intertwined here.
1. Does the BSA bar women from being leaders? NO
2. Can a Charter Organization choose to not have women leaders? YES (they can also choose to only have women leaders)
3. Does the BSA bar women from camping? NO
4. Are there restrictions on women camping? YES
5. Can a Charter Organization exclude women from camping? Yes (they can also say only women can go camping)
The Charter Organization can be more restrictive than the BSA membership regulations but they cannot be less restrictive.
Personal opinion on who the CO should allow to go camping is just that, personal opinion. The CO's choice is not right or wrong, it is just the CO's choice.
(This message has been edited by Bob White)(This message has been edited by Bob White)
Bravo Youngblood for stating a truth that is so often dodged in the name of political correctness. Why is it such a terrible thing to have quality time exclusively amongst males? It's not that we want to talk about things that women shouldn't hear or do things women shouldn't see, it's just that hanging out and "being guys" is tainted when moms are around. I'm sure a group of girlscouts would feel the same way about dads tagging along on their own camping trips.
Well, it looks like YoungBlood and Jerry may be a little afraid to be shown up on backpacking trips by mom. In one of the troops in our district there is a mom Venture Crew leader that I would match up against any dad on any backpacking journey. She just can't be matched in stamina and drive to scouting. Not possible.
And Bob White, I am very glad you do not sit on our board of directors in this company. You just know to much about to many things to be of any good authority on any of them.
I like the idea of being a merit badge counselor or a council position.
It is a big switch from being a active in Webelos with your child and then having the men take over in Boy Scouts. It's hard at first but it does get easier.
Might just be a cultural difference or it might be a clause established because of particular moms too.
I wouldn't be overly concerned about the conversations they alluded to but I would ask my son casually the first couple camp outs what they talked about. Some men think women don't know about burps or other such bodily noises. Still since it was phrased that way, I would just kind of check up on it with my child.
Remember there are no secret organizations in Scouting so you can drop in too.
"There are plenty of ways for you to help out in other ways. In my several years of scouts I never liked having somebody else's mom on the trip. Even if that mom stayed out of the picture I would rather it be a male. To me Boy Scouts was the one place I went to escape females and the real world in general. It was "guy time". I know first hand that I am not an exception."
Women want all things and to be included but also want to be separate. Many sports have a special "women's class" but women also compete by default in the "men's class" which is all inclusive. Women want to belong to men's clubs but really don't want men showing up at Tupperware parties or bridal showers.
Men like to get together; scratch, grunt, belch, and pass gas. Conversation tends to revolve about how good we were when, whose team is better this year, fast cars and technology. About 10% of the time we talk about how to keep our daughters under control or other sensitive subjects.
When women are around we feel that we can't scratch, grunt, belch or pass gas. Women want to direct the conversation to things like child rearing and away from cars, sports and technology. Women rarely, if ever, talk about how good they were back then.
The worst thing is that when women are around, you just can't pee on the nearest tree. :-(
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Already have an account? Sign in here.