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major pack issues with leadership, need to remove AC-help!

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You have been given excellent advice from Lisa and Eagle92.


You are the Chartered Organization Rep. You have the authority and the responsibility to remove a leader from your unit. As others have said, it's time for a business sit-down with your IH. Get his/her backing, and then ... gird up your loins. Your Scouting position places you on the line for this task.


Keep your IH, Commish, and DE informed.

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Thanks again for your advice.


As far as him thinking he's CM, the CM just quit a week and a half ago. This behavior has been going on since this spring. The two of them were co-leaders for the Bear den. When the uniform thing and scarf things happened, I asked the CM/leader if he knew about this and he just said, "No, he just showed up with this/just told us this." So the ACM wasn't even conferring with his co-leader/CM.


We've decided to mail a registered letter to his house. I told my husband last night that I'm frankly afraid of this man. Not to sound biased against the military by any means, but this man has a stash of guns, rifles, etc. in his home, still has his fatigues on display in the garage on a dummy, etc. That kind of creeps me out. My husband just told me to never answer his calls, open the door, etc. and to call the police for his harrassment.


I did send a letter to the Pres. of the charter and have not heard back. Not sure what that means. I might still have to call him and check with him about all of this. I'm sure he'll support me though b/c he's very much "for kids" and would be extremely upset if this man did something like this to him, let alone me. He's a sweet guy and I know him well. I'm sure he'll give his "OK".


The council's DE, UC, and the DE's boss are all "discussing" via email what to do with this mess. I'm copied on everything and it seems the only one answering any of them is the boss and me. The UC called the other night, but I was on the other end with the boss and didn't flip over. I need to try and call him when my son isn't around since this upsets him so much.


I think we'll remove ACM, send letter to parents about the "state of the pack" with a date for a parents meeting. See what happens at the meeting and go from there. We need this over ASAP. I'm on disability for some health issues I have and all of this is worsening everything. Like someone else on here said, "Cub Scouting is fine until you add the adults." How true that is!


Thanks again!

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Sounds like a reasonable approach. Just make sure that you have your CO's backing to prevent any further issues. Also, keep in mind the personal approach for higher positions. Quite often you'll get a "someone else in the group will do it" thinking in these meetings. A one-on-one over coffee with one or two people who you think have the ability and burried desire will often yield great results.

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Much good insight and advice.

Something not mentioned: We are here for the boys, yes? Both ours and theirs. Do you have any contact with Mrs. Bully? What is your gut feeling about the family dynamics? Is his Take-Over, speak to the man not the woman, sabotage others' arrangements, shout down disagreement, behavior ONLY limited to Cub Scouting? I would not expect so. Is there ANY evidence of further domestic abuse? Where does that lead you ?


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  • 1 month later...

Oh, you will all LOVE this turn of events:


I sent the man the letter certified mail. The next day, he wrote a very slanderous letter TO THE ENTIRE PACK about how he has been removed (at the end he says he resigns). He thinks it's b/c he gave fishing poles out to people. Didn't seem to cross his mind that he yelled at me and verbally abused me on more than one occassion, went against committee agreements, and was taking advantage of power he thought he had. Within 5 min, our Webelos leader wrote a short note TO THE WHOLE PACK about how he supports him and it's a travesty that he was removed. Needless to say, I was very upset, but figured I had the support of the DE, UC, Field Dir., and Charter behind me. (Of course, my name was the only one on the letter) I was very upset that people were actually believing this liar! My husband reassured me that certain people in the pack would at least ask for my side of the story before jumping to conclusions about the whole thing. Well, our treasurer, whom I've known for 5 years, recruited her son, have done baby showers, b-days, etc. with and considered her whole family close personal friends, wrote the worst note of all. She called me selfish, didn't know what I was doing, she thinks that I'm an awful scout, etc. She concluded by saying that she "better be careful what she says or the COR might remove her too". This letter hit me hard. Maybe there's no crying in scouts, but I was hysterical after this letter. She's always fair to everyone and wants to know both sides before making a decision about something. Apparently not this time. Again, it WAS SENT OUT TO THE ENTIRE PACK. Very embarassing since everyone knows we were close friends. I wrote her back (only her)and let her know how I felt. Apparently didn't affect her b/c haven't heard from her since.


After a few days of the slander, my husband and I had enough and resigned our positions. We couldn't take it anymore and it was very clear that no matter what I thought or why I removed him (still, no one had asked why, incl. the man I removed). I talked to the the FD (only one who ever personally replies to me out of that group) and explained why I had to leave. He understood and said they were still going to hold the meeting to see who they could pull from the ranks.


Well, they managed to get a CC, new Tiger Leader (former CM), a COR who is in the Charter and a former BS leader. They still didn't have a CM. But, before the meeting started, the man I removed (which they all told me to do) stood up and said that he had done nothing wrong and didn't understand why he was removed in the first place, he was sorry, blah, blah. (Never has told me he was sorry, but told my husband he was sorry and expected him to tell me and copied the DE on it...funny, didn't copy him on first awful letter!) Yup, you guessed it. He is now CUBMASTER! They all tell me to remove him, I do what they want, my life is horrible and I'm a mess for about 5 weeks, and then they promote him b/c they meet him and he says he's sorry. I'm sure he's still smiling from the satisfaction he rec'd when he figured he totally went against me. I just can't believe all of those people above me went along with it. He may have been the only person who volunteered, but he was JUST REMOVED FOR VERBAL ABUSE!


Needless to say, we are leaving the pack and going to a more stable pack for the last few months my son has left. I'm never volunteering for anything again with the scouts. I would like to at least enjoy the time my son has left in scouting.


It's a shame we have to leave the pack my family started, my son helped to name, and the members were mostly recruited by us. We each had at least 5 positions for things in the pack, so it'll be interesting to see what happens this year with them. I know I say I don't care, but there are still kids there I feel relied on us for things and now we won't be there to help them.


I never thought scouting would let me down this much. The man who is now CM, who has no problem yelling and cursing at women who rank above him, is now their leader. It's a sad day.

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Sad for the young scouts.


As for the adult leaders, sounds like they get what they deserve.. Let them be bullied and cussed at by this guy, They asked for it.


Good for you for moving on. I hope your son's journey is a happy one and yours is untramatic from here on out.

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Thank you all for your encouraging words. Glad to know not everyone thinks I'm crazy. I've heard so many awful things lately, I started to doubt my ability to be a good leader or a good person for that matter.


I know there are parents in the pack who are upset about the whole thing and think I was right for removing him. Of course, I don't know if they realize he's been "promoted" yet. Some of them have already asked where we're going. One of the W2 boys are completing leaving due to how we've been treated and she doesn't want her son exposed to that. She said that scouting should be fair, honest, and fun. People who have put their hearts and souls into it should be treated well, not stepped on, harassed, and slandered all over the internet to dozens of families.


It is sad for the kids. All of those parents are going to have to come up with something to tell them when they don't see us or the other families who are leaving at the same.


I never wrote a note to the whole pack about any of this. I didn't want to lower to their level. My husband wrote the note about our resignations. I just don't have the heart to tell everyone about what happened and start pointing fingers. I feel it's unprofessional and immature. (Leaders should be professional and mature, right???) If any of them ask me, I've explained my side. Otherwise, I'm keeping to myself. Just the thought of any of this or even seeing a scouting symbol or looking at my scouting stuff I worked so hard on for the fall makes me ill.


Guess I need to find something new to keep me busy. Scouting has been my life for 5 years. It's been very hard to fill the void this has caused. I just need to concentrate on getting my son through to Boy Scouts, if he still wants to go. (He's wanted to quit since this has all happened) He's my focus now.


Thanks again for your support and encouragement. It means a lot, although we're all strangers, b/c you're all scouters too.


Take care all!

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This situation is to the extreme. I know, that you know, that there are many excellent Packs, Troops, and Crews all across this great nation, that successfully execute their level of the Scouting program. My Troop had one new loud mouth idiot Committee person, blow the Troop apart, because he saw the weak spots in the adult leadership. Scouting was never designed to defend adult leaders. We all simply have accepted positions in a unit, to train, and work as a team. We want to support our Scouts to allow them to grow in so many positive ways. Hang in there. Clear your mind. Support your Scout. Find a great unit. Don't look back. Scouting is much better then what you and your family have been through.

As the COR (and your husband as the CC), you could have cleaned house if you wanted to. Our COR does nothing, and just wants everyone to get along and work things out without him having to get involved. Most of the Troop has quit, and when the loud mouth realized that he wasn't going to be asked to be the new Scoutmaster (I was the old one and resigned), he moved him and his son to another unit, and is starting to do the same things there. I feel for his son. We'll all make it through. Steady as she goes. I believe in Scouting.



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Just the thought of any of this or even seeing a scouting symbol or looking at my scouting stuff I worked so hard on for the fall makes me ill.


leader1118, I know youve been through the mill and are disheartened and, dare I say, disgusted by what youve experienced, but please rethink on disassociating yourself with Scouting and helping your son along.


Sure, there are a lot of jerks out there, but there are also a lot of great volunteers with their hearts in the right place. In my small experience as a scout leader Ive had my share of frustrations and run-ins with the jerks. All this frustration, however, was more than offset by the great folks Ive been privileged to collaborate with in working to put forth a fun and worthy program for our boys.


Check out some packs with your son, observe their programs, and talk to the leaders. Im sure youll find one that your son will enjoy and that will make you feel good about scouting again. We need all the good volunteers like yourself we can muster!





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I feel for you and hope you find a nice calm pack and then a nice troop when your son crosses over. At this point I also understand wanting to totally disassociate yourself from Scouting. Never say never. You may find yourself with a a wonderful group of people in a few years and be re-energized.

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