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-KJ-

Inappropriate CubMaster Actions?

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We have a new CubMaster, as the old one crossed with his sons.

 

The new CubMaster is a really easy-going guy. Hard to make him angry or flustered, he likes everyone, he's easy with the compliments and encouragements, quick with a joke and a smile. He's a little immature...he tells "ghost stories" at the Pack campouts that invariably have entertaining endings having to do with bodily functions to defeat the bad guys, and of course our Cubs love that stuff. Distasteful, but...eh, whatever.

 

I think things went too far recently. We went to resident summer camp with three Dens. Upon arrival we had a swim test, and apparently CM was just going to totally let loose...the jokes and innuendos started about my DL. She ignored him for the most part, and he attempted to bait me into it. I walked away to take pictures of the boys in the lake.

 

He totally failed to give me information on where to take my Scouts for the morning session, despite asking him the evening before, once before breakfast, and 15 minutes before the session was to take place. The ACM was the one to get information and finally sit down with the DL and me (ADL) and hash out the schedule for the remainder of camp.

 

Things generally go well until the evenings. As the days progressed, the more unruly the boys and the CM became. By the end of the first day the boys in CM's Den were feeling perfectly free to urinate all over the campground, despite the latrine sitting there 10 yards away. "Seriously, you guys, there's a latrine RIGHT THERE, you can't use it?" I asked one boy who was busy watering a tree on the way to breakfast. CM looks over his shoulder and grins, and keeps hiking. The boy takes his as his cue, grins at me happily and runs off the join the rest of his Den. This endless fascination with peeing in the woods finally culminated in a complaint from one of the female DLs. "Come ON, you guys, people WALK through here! Can you at LEAST keep it to the perimeter of the camp? We do NOT need to be walking through your pee!" CM seemed to glimmer with recognition and said, "Yeah, guys, keep it out of where people walk." That was the only restriction. Certainly modesty wasn't taught in any way, nor were the guidelines for LNT (broadcasting, no foliage, etc.)

 

The boys got freer with their language by the end of Day 2. They'd begun to sing made-up songs about "the CubMaster's booty," and take an occasional swing at his rear. I think he'd realized he'd created a bit of a monster because he had no control over it, and they were scampering around shrieking and giggling at him. That evening around the campfire, CM came over and sat on my lap. "Oh, he's like that," says my DL. "He's a huge flirt, he doesn't mean anything by it." Many, many jokes of the "that's what SHE said!" variety were tossed around. Hard to tell if the younger Scouts were picking any of it up.

 

The last night I took my son to the showers after dinner, and came back to find not just a campfire, but a giant column of flames. Tree branches 20 feet up were swaying from the heat. I took one look at the tipi of wood and flames and became alarmed. "I'm sure this isn't in the safe Scouting guidelines," I said loudly. "That's tall enough that when it topples over it's liable to hit someone!" The boys who were closest to it were instructed to move back. Other DLs spent the evening scavenging all the fallen wood from our site and got to work chopping at it with axes, and breaking it using the live trees as a fulcrum/leverage point. Seeing as the low temperature that night was supposed to be in the high 60s, there was no need for a fire, let alone an inferno. This gradually morphed into a game (by the DLs) of attempting to make scary noises in the woods, pulling out more deadwood, and CM once commented, "There's a HUGE raccoon back here! Someone get me the axe!" Many of the boys surged forward in excitement until 3 of the DLs still around the fire said there would be NO killing of anything, with or without an axe.

 

CM would also instigate things. He'd be sitting in the camp chair and would say, "I've got ten bucks for anyone who can tie Jimmy to a tree!" The younger Scouts took this at least half-seriously, and would approach Jimmy with a rope in hand. ??? Why encourage this?

 

Our boys decided they were tired, so we turned in with them. The last straw was in the morning, when I discovered the CM's son had taught most of the other Scouts to sing "Barbie Girl," with the modified lyrics of

"I'm a Barbie girl In a Barbie world

My boobs are plastic, they're fantastic

You can do my hair, you can do my underwear..."

 

Seriously? In Cub Scouts?

 

I'm seriously bothered by all of this; the disorganization, the immature innuendo, the modeling of actions that are antithesis to LNT.

 

What options do I have?

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Are you for real? This sounds so alarming that my first thought is it could be a joke, all made up to get a rise out of people who post on this site.

 

But, on the chance that it is real, LEAVE. Leave now. Take your son(s) and don't look back. This is way uncool. Report the behavior to the pack's Charter organization in a letter, copied to your district executive, in which you explain why you are leaving.

 

Then go find a cub pack that acts like a cub pack should act.

 

 

 

 

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Are you for real? This sounds so alarming that my first thought is it could be a joke, all made up to get a rise out of people who post on this site.

 

But, on the chance that it is real, LEAVE. Leave now. Take your son(s) and don't look back. This is way uncool. Report the behavior to the pack's Charter organization in a letter, copied to your district executive, in which you explain why you are leaving.

 

Then go find a cub pack that acts like a cub pack should act.

 

 

 

 

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What Lisabob said, in triplicate. RUN, do not walk, and find another pack.

 

The CM and other DLs have clearly shown they don't have the first clue about how to do their jobs, or about the basic rules of safety. And now that the boys have experienced Camp Runamuck, putting the genie back in the bag is not going to be easy for them.

 

Since this happened at a resident camp, I'm curious - what did the camp staff say when encountering these wild urinators, reckless firebuilders and inappropriate singers? Did the camp commissioner visit the campsite at any point (as is his/her job) and witness any of this behavior? Did the staff have any programs on fire safety, and what was the reaction from the DLs and CM?

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Sadly, it IS true.

 

Camp staff did not encounter the wild urinators. They spotted one of the campfires, which was under decent control at the time, and a staff member came to our campsite to help us setup at the beginning of the event, and to help check us out at the end. That was pretty much the extent of our contact with camp staff at the actual campsite. The rest of the interaction was during sessions. Other than that, we were pretty much left to our own devices.

 

The camp commissioner came to help hose out the latrine floor late during Day 1, but I wasn't there at the time to see the interactions.

 

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First off, I'm new to the forums, but I didn't expect my first post to be on a thread like this.

 

I think besides everything that was mentioned, there is also a major Youth Protection issue here. The obvious one is the urinating in the woods, in what sounds like full view of the other youth and leaders. Also, the inappropriate jokes and instigating is at best borderline, if not fully in violation of the BSA's YP standards.

 

While I agree with the idea of getting your own son out of the pack, I can't help but think of those left behind as well. I'd have a candid conversation with the CC, COR, DE and/or unit commissioner at very least. If nothing else, you know the situation is brought to the attention of those who need to know.

 

Best of Luck,

Ken

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Echo what everyone else said; " Run for your lives!"

 

Does the Charter Rep know about this stuff? How do other parents feel?

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The only, and I mean ONLY thing this Cm did that was okay was to light a campfire. No, not a towering inferno, but just a plain old fire. Nothing more than 3 or 4 logas at a time and the flame not over 3 feet.

 

Everything else......THis is a runaway train. You are not going to stop him yourself, you are not going to make himsee the serious problem with what he;s doing , not will you convince him to stop.

 

The best thing you can do is lodge a formal complaint to the COR, CC and DE( at the very least).

 

Urinating? Not only is this a YP issue, but also a potential health/ sanitation/ spread of disease issue.

 

Right now, in the back of my mind, gears are turning. I may be totally and completely wrong..but why would a CM allow the boys to do such stuff:

Urinating in front of each other?

Singing about bodily functions?

Sexual inuendo?

 

This Cm is doing one of two things:

 

1) Trying eway way too hard to be liked by the boys..to a point he's doing harm instead of creating comradre.

 

OR

 

2) He is a predator that is slowly and surely bringing the boys around. Maybe to make inaproprite behavior look like "being a big silly kid".

 

I'll be honest - it's bad enough that a parent might be lax about thier own child peeing at a camp, but to not only allow, but practically encourage by not stopping the whole pack from peeing everuywhere - that scares me.

 

I would not allow my child to be around this guy at all. I'd yank my kid from this pack so fast that I might give him whiplash!

 

 

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---> 1) Trying way, way too hard to be liked by the boys..to a point he's doing harm instead of creating comradre.

 

I truly believe this is it. He's sort of a "Goodtime Charlie" type. His kid didn't pass the swim test, so he bought him a pocketknife (yes, I think the kid has a Whittlin' Chip, but he got it in Wolves...dunno if that's too early or what), with the comment, "Sometimes love CAN be bought." He's much more of a buddy to his kids than a parent.

 

The ACM is an Eagle Scout, too. (I know, makes the story worse, doesn't it?) Is there any sense in talking to any of them?

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Lisa has said it exactly right.

 

1) Report to the Professionals.

 

2) Report to the COR why you're leaving.

 

3) LEAVE.

 

The Professional Service will deal with any YP issues and if this person should be a volunteer. The COR will deal with the matter of if this person should be a volunteer at all in his units.

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Yes, leave this mess of a Pack, and report why to your COR, and your council.

 

And just a note to remember for future summer camps - If ANYTHING happens that you feel is wrong (urinating in public, towering infernos, etc) hike yourself off IMMEDIATELY to visit the Camp Director and let him/her know what is going on.

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Ok people...before pulling out the YP gun, think about what it says. Urinating in the woods is NOT against YP, however it should not be in "public" so to speak. If it was, any Boy Scout Troop that does back country would be in violation. That said, it IS potentially unsanitary and could LEAD to potential YP issues. It should therefor be discouraged and stopped if there is a latrine nearby.

 

As for the rest, a Cubmaster should be cutting up and having fun with the boys...but this should be in a controlled manner, which is not what is descibed. Someone, and not just a parent, but the Committee Chair and Charter Organization Rep,as well as maybe the Unit Commisioner or Distric Executive need to have a sit down with him before anything else happens!

 

As for you, if things don't look like they are drastically changing for the better fast, I would leave. You may want to anyway.(This message has been edited by pack212scouter)

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As a former DE I can tell you the council SE, as well as the CO, needs to be informed of these actions ASAP. Get the other DL's and write a detailed letter, have all of you sign it and hand deliver it to the SE and COR. While urinating in the woods may not in itself a YP violation in a BSA camp which is private property it IS a violation as well as being unscoutlike behavior. More importantly the other actions of this leader puts the boys in some risk, fire out of control, tieing up other scouts are all YP violations that are serious enough to get this guy blackballed out of scouting, which the SE can do even if the CO will not take any action. The main thing is file the grievance as a group as it will carry much more weight.

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-KJ-

Hopefully, you have seen from all the replies to your post that this is indeed a major "red-flag" situation. Most of the folks who have replied have been around Scouting a very long time and they are dead on target about what to do. Don't let this CM's likability factor play into it at all. This is an epic train wreck in the making.

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Sorry, but as written, I see it as a YP issue. We have Cub Scouts, urinating in the woods full view of other scouts and leaders (which is clear as written), even if their backs may be turned (which is not clear), and a Cubmaster actively encouraging the behavior. If there are Cub Scouts exposing themselves outside of an appropriate setting (showers, changing rooms, latrine, etc.), for whatever reason, and the primary adult leader is not only NOT stopping it, but encouraging the behavior, then it certainly is a Youth Protection issue. Probably one that can be corrected before it gets out of hand, but YP all the same.(This message has been edited by kmorgan221)

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