Pack Cabin Camping

[Basementdweller 608]

Well I have a really silly question......seem silly to me because in all my years it has never been an issue till now.

 

 

Our usual cabin multiroom cabin is not available the weekend the leadership chose for the winter camp out. So instead they rented a dorm style cabin.......

 

So how do you manage the sleeping arrangements while still following youth protection?

 

We have boys, sibs, adult males and females...........

 

 

again.....I feel silly cause this is the first time I have had to deal with it.

 

Please feed me your experiences........

 

Just for the record......I am gonna avoid the whole mess and sleep in my tent.

[NealOnWheels 73]

From the Guide to Safe Scouting:

 

"Single-room or dormitory-type accommodations for Scouting units: Adults and youth of the same gender may occupy dormitory or single-room accommodations, provided there is a minimum of two adults and four youth. A minimum of one of the adults is required to be youth-protection trained. Adults must establish separation barriers or privacy zones such as a temporary blanket or sheet walls in order to keep their sleeping area and dressing area separated from the youth area."

 

Sounds like an issue for your group.

[John-in-KC 311]

Since you don't mention they are Webelos...

 

Remember these bold-faced keypoints from G2SS:

 

Overnight camping by Tiger, Wolf, and Bear Cub Scout dens as dens is not approved and certificates of liability insurance will not be provided by the Boy Scouts of America.

 

Tiger Cubs may participate in boy-parent excursions, day camps, pack overnighters, or council-organized family camping.

 

Pack Overnighters

These are pack-organized overnight events involving more than one family from a single pack, focused on age-appropriate Cub Scout activities and conducted at council-approved locations (councils use Pack Overnighter Site Approval Form, No. 13-508). If nonmembers (siblings) participate, the event must be structured accordingly to accommodate them. BSA health and safety and youth protection guidelines apply. In most cases, each youth member will be under the supervision of a parent or guardian. In all cases, each youth participant is responsible to a specific adult.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It needs to be a Pack event.

 

It needs to be family based.

 

If family based, the family must have the privacy of their facility.

[Oak Tree 15]

It seems to me that this situation is not very well dealt with in the G2SS. It presumes that you can create dividers that create a youth area and an adult area. This is not always possible.

 

What we've done in practice is to make sure that there is some private way to change clothes. The rules in the G2SS are impractical for dealing with sleeping on aircraft carrier, or overnight in some large room (e.g. aquarium). Packs do it all the time, though.

 

The rule about keeping the sleeping areas separate seems to me to be particularly targeted at troops, and not at pack family camping. The idea of walling off one large room and putting forty Cub Scouts on one side with the forty parents on the other side of the sheet wall seems highly amusing to me. Between the energy level and the separation anxiety, no one would ever get to sleep, I'd think.

[ntrog8r 19]

The Guide to Safe Scouting reference for Family Camping and Pack Overnighters can be found here: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss03.aspx

Leadership (YP) requirements are here: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss01.aspx

 

The only complication really comes from the mixed genders. So, arrange the cabin sleeping area by family. If possible string up sheets/blankets to make separate cubbies for each family. If not possible, use the packs/bags to create a barrier between areas if appropriate and string off one area for changing clothes.

 

 

[SMT224 10]

We've done this several times with the Troop and with my daughters Girls Scouts.

 

Bring several tarps, rope, and a hammer and nails. Then creatively create a segregated adult area, or when both male and female leaders are present (or in the case of Girls Scouts), "Man" and "Woman" areas.

 

 

 

 

[Basementdweller 608]

*sigh*

 

Yes it is a Pack Family camp out. I did not clearly state it in my question, I am sorry. I own multiple copies of the G2SS and I am familiar with the quoted passages.

 

I understand that there needs to be separate areas my question was how to actually do the segregating. I figured it was rope and sheets, but I was unsure.

 

I hate cabin camping,

[shortridge 184]

I admit I've never run into this situation either. Family camping in my experience has always involved tents, or separate cabins for each family.

 

But the way I read it, the sheets/blankets-as-dividers only works when you have single-gender groups in the same room, to separate the boys from the men or the girls from the women.

 

That goes back to the section quoted by NealOnWheels: "Adults and youth of the same gender may occupy dormitory or single-room accommodations..."

 

... and also draws upon other sections: "Male and female leaders must have separate sleeping facilities. ... Male and female youth participants will not share the same sleeping facility."

 

You thus can't have adults and youths of mixed genders occupying a single room. They have to be separated by gender by a wall and a door, not just a sheet or blanket (or packs and bags).

 

Yeah, cabin camping sure can cause more problems than it solves, can't it? With proper planning and equipment, tents are perfectly fine. Even in winter, the right bedding and clothing can keep you toastier in a tent than some cabins can.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

[John-in-KC 311]

I think the best way out is find a different set of cabins...

[SctDad 10]

Basement Dweller

 

String, Tarps/blankets, and a genuine effort to afford the families an area to change in privacy. Make an effort, but I would not make that my only concern about the campout. Talk with the parnets and see what it is that you can do to help them. If you show an effort, it will usually go very far. Not to mention, let them know that if they are that concerned they may want to bring something. It is not up to you to make everything happen. If they still protest, let them know that it is not required. A little effort to make them confortable should go a long way.

 

As for everyone else that wants to quote the rules of Cub Camping, I think that I have run into people like you before. You sounds like the type of scouters that say, "Cubs don't go camping"

 

WHy is it everytime someone asks advice about Cub camping the first thing that you say is, ONLY WEBELOS CAMP AS A DEN.

 

Let them run their program. If it is getting approved by the council as pack overnighter then so be it. Good grief, if you were in my pack I would have left two days after getting there.

[JoeBob 606]

Depending on the numbers of the parties needing to be segregated, you could use a tent inside the dome. ie- If there are two girls who need to be segregated, put 'em in a tent inside the dome.

[shortridge 184]

SctDad,

 

You still have to follow the rules. If you don't, you're not running the Scouting program.

[SctDad 10]

I understand about following the rules. I understand his concern with the YP standards and general privacy issues.

 

No where did he say anything about camping as a den. Now where did he meention any problems with his program. As a matter of fact, he mentioned that this is his USUAL winter trip. That would lead me to believe that they have done this before without problems AND the council knows what they are doing. His concern was the seperation of families/genders for privacy issues.

 

My understanding from his e-mail is that this was a family campout that was usually held at one location that had to be changed, and now they just had the privacy issue.

 

Basement Dweller: Ask the parents how they would like to handle this.

[shortridge 184]

SctDad -

 

My point is simply that rules are rules, and they are pretty clear in this type of case. Making "a genuine effort to afford the families an area to change in privacy" is not what the rules call for. You can't just say "Well, I tried, and no one objected, so it was OK."

 

There are three rules that apply to this particular situation:

 

- Adults and youth of the same gender may occupy a single room.

- Male and female leaders must have different sleeping facilities.

- Male and female youth must have different sleeping facilities.

 

Sheets and blankets simply aren't enough.

[Basementdweller 608]

We normally get a multiroom cabin. The ladys and girls in one room, men in one and scouts in the third. Worked great. It is an event that happens in the winter, in a heated cabin at a scout camp.

 

To me this isn't really winter camping, sorta on the order of the kids going out and playing in the snow, getting cold and running inside and going to bed.