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PACK15NISSAN

Transfer - Lost Book

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I have a transfer that just joined my Webelos 2 den, he moved here from out of state. His dad said they searched high and low but somehow in the move their book got lost. He asked me what kind of proof that his son achieved certain badges and achievements he needed to provide me with.

 

His son has activity badge pins on his Webelos colors and his Webelos Badge on his uniform but other than that they have no way really prove what he has done. Of course he said the pack he came from was small and did not use internet advancement which would provide digital proof.

 

My response to him was to tell him that a scout is honest and trustworthy, and expect that a parent should be too, especially one that wants his son to learn those type of morals. Then I told him to have the old WDL to email with what he earned and that would work for me. He then informed me that having the former WDL email might be a problem but he would see what he could do.

 

I know of people want to cheat then they will and if where any other badge besides AOL it probably wouldn't bother me as much (it would still bother me though). I just don't want to think that I gave Cub Scouts highest honor to someone who doesn't deserve it. I have no reason to think he would lie but we have only had 2 meetings so I really don't know the dad well enough to assume either way.

 

Is there a better way to handle this?

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His former council should track the Scout's achievements. Get in touch w someone in the council office.

 

If the father won't tell/doesn't remember the name of the council, it's probably on the kid's shoulder. (I have boys transferred in last year who still have the old CSP on.)

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If Scoutnet is workign properly, I've had problems with it, then ALL advancement, i.e. ranks, elective points, Web. Activity pins, etc, should have a report filed for the scout and entered into SCOUTNET. Cal the council offfice, give them the scouts name, and if known ID number, and you should have a report for everything.

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Perhaps I was not clear.

 

The boys father told his old pack did not use internet advancement and therefore his advancement would not be on ScoutNet.

 

I don't know how the old council worked but the dad told me that he already tried to get the paperwork from the previous council and they don't have it.

 

He should have a card for each activity pin and his rank right? I think I am going to ask if he has those and get copies of them. Of course this will mean that any partial badges will be lost but I guess that is the penalty for losing his book.

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When my son earned is tiger rank, I miss placed the badge. I went into my council office and they were able to print me the information I needed to replace the badge. We did not use internet advancement and I had filled out a paper form to purchase the awards for the pack.

 

Karen

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Really depends on if the old pack turned in the advancement forms. This can be avoided by using the "awards box" a lot of packs used.

 

As a CM I always kept a few extra rank pins/patches (immediate recognition), though fewer closer to Webelos.

 

Maybe the best start would be a "sit-down" with the Scout to talk about what he thinks he earned and go from there. Use a new advancement form.

 

He may not remember with 100% detail, but should be able to discuss things. If he can't remember anything then the judgment call ..... I would want some current progress if he expects AOL.(This message has been edited by dg98adams)

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"The boys father told his old pack did not use internet advancement and therefore his advancement would not be on ScoutNet."

 

BALONEY!!

 

If he has earned Bobcat, Wolf, or Bear, those are in Scoutnet. Units are required to turn in advancement reports for ranks. I'll have to check about arrow points.

 

ScoutNet is a membership, finance, and advancement database. He entered it the instant his Council registrar banged in his app.

 

As for works in progress, well, ACP&P has guidance for all Scouting programs: Sit down with the kid and his Dad. Evaluate what activity pins he has toward his Webelo rank. Evaluate what he's done toward AOL. Make a decision and press on.

 

If necessary, ask Dad for the contact info for the old DL/CM/CC. CALL THEM. Ask them to scan and email (or just plain fax) you their copies of advancement reports.

 

(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

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You don't need to use Internet Advancement in order to have your advancement appear on ScoutNet. The Pack turns in the Advancement Report to their council, the council enters it into ScoutNet. This is only for the restricted items like rank award badges, and not for other awards like belt loops. Now, if the council is not up to date, that is another story.

 

You stated that he had his activity badges and his Webelos Rank Award. If he has these on his uniform, doesn't that prove he earned them?

 

By looking at the activity badges he has on his uniform, you should be able to figure out what he still needs to earn. Talk to the boy (not the dad). If he states he has a partial in one of the missing badges it should be fairly easy for him to remember what he did for it. Otherwise he starts the badge from scratch.

 

If he has all the needed activity badges then I would talk to the boy to see if he has completed any of the Troop activity, and den campout/hike, AOL requirements. Once again, a simple talk with the boy should be able to settle the issue.

 

Are you planning on covering any of AOL requirements with your 5th grade Webelos? Your new Scout would be completing them with the rest of the den.

 

So, unless you are assuming that he bought his shirt recently, second hand, with all of the insignia already on it, I really don't see this as a big problem.

 

Check out his insignia, talk to the Scout, run your Webelos program for this year, help him make up whatever he is missing. Everything should be fine.

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I would not take the pins on the uniform as definitive proof of his earning them. Pins and uniforms are available at garage sales and ebay. Heck you can walk into the scout shop and buy what ever you want, Had a parent do that.

 

Met an adult leader with an Ebay Philmont Arrowhead, he spent his week there hauling his 150 pound pack to the top of baldy and camped up on top in the Pine scrubs on top. My response was wow. Still chuckling about it.

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I would have to say I'm with ScoutNut on this one. The one caveat I would have to taking the pins, badge and a good conversation at face value is this: What sort of scouting or scouter experience does the dad have? This is one of the few instances where "not much, if any" would be a good answer. I would have a hard time believing a non-scouting parent would say, "Ok, now that we've moved, let's say we lost the old book and go to the scout shop. Then, we'll get a Webelos badge and a bunch of pins and lie about how you earned them". Most non-scouting parents couldn't find our council's shop with a GPS and a 3 day head start.

 

Also, one of the first hings written, "He asked me what kind of proof that his son achieved certain badges and achievements he needed to provide me with." tells me a bit as well. If I'm reading this right, he approached you about doing what was needed, instead of demanding you take them at face value.

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PACK15NISSAN and Fellow Scouters,

 

PACK15, I think you handled it correctly. You asked the correct questions to the parent, then asked the parent to facilitate communications with the previous WDL. I don't think there is a better way.

 

I think ScoutNut stated it correctly regarding ScoutNET. The ScoutNET2000 should have primarily advancement items, which are quiet fewer database entries than Packmaster, Troopmaster, Ranknfile (now obsolete) and Scoutsoft.

 

ScoutNET would have the ranks Tiger, Wolf, Bear and Webelos and the Arrow of Light Award. But I do not believe that ScoutNET has data entries for the Webelos Activity pins. Packmaster would, but ScoutNET would not. If the Webelos has earned his Webelos badge, that should reflect in ScoutNET, but his completed and earned activity pins I don't think will be found in the ScoutNET.

 

Also. ScoutNET files Scouts and Adult leaders by their Scout ID Number (found on the annual membership card), under their unit and numerically under the council number. The registrar at the current council would have to have the Scouts ID number, previous council number to access his records. I understand this is for child safety reasons. Council registrar can only see members of their council, unless the record is electronically transferred or released. I tell my Scouting leaders and families, it is just like transferring schools and colleges, it is not an automatic deal. A transcript needs to be forwarded to the receiving council, as though it was a different college reviewing a credit transcript.

 

So, it is after the fact, the Webelos has already transferred.

 

During Specifics training, it seems record keeping paperwork comes right after safety.

 

The family should continue to look for the book, unless they threw it away. It is probably still in an unpacked box or at the bottom of the toy closet. The parent should purchase a school backpack just for carrying scouting literature, permission slips and handbooks(like putting a gas station restroom key tethered to a cinder block).

 

The previous Pack should go to training, if they are not record keeping (shame on them).

 

The parent should go to a Pack or Troop parents orientation, if the parent is not record keeping along with their son (shame on them).

 

Maybe by boy scouting, the Scouts should be responsible for carrying their handbooks and merit badge applications (along with the pamphlet and homework). But for a Webelos, I think this parent is negligent is aiding their son.

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

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If memory serves, SCOUTNET is the natioanl national database that is suppose to list all awards and recognitions, i.e. CS ranks, BS ranks, training awards, etc. Adavancment is part of that record, and the Web. Act. Pins are advancement and SHOULD be in the record. Arrow points or elective may be another matter, although they are put on the paper advancement report if memory serves.

 

So that info SHOULD be available via the local council. I say should because I have had challenges with my SCOUTNET record. I have the Scouter's Training Award, but I was listed as "Untrained" as an ASM with 2 councils I was in.

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E92,

 

Agree with you here. Garbage in = Garbage out. Too many Councils seem to blow off data entry for adult records. Of course, I've seen some horrific youth member records too. It got to the point where I asked for a copy of the pdf printout for each youth approaching Eagle, then submitted a summary advancement report along with the Eagle app to get his record well.

 

Here's hoping this young boy gets a 90% solution or so.

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Eagle92,

 

 

Thanks!

 

I think you've said you were a professional Scouter before. At least the professional Scouters would have a better knowledge of the data entries. The entries are usually only done via online advancements or by one single registrar per council. So while I've seen printouts and discussed the databases and ScoutNET, I can only appreciate it from a distance.

 

I would not have expected Webelos Activity pins to be in ScoutNET.

 

I have experienced quite a few adults, parents and Scouters that falsely believe ScoutNET maintains all data, just exactly like the commercial databases. i.e. camping nights, volunteer hours, certain special awards like mile swim or snorkeling, TLT, DLC, and etc.

 

If a Scout transfers and looses their handbook. Only rank advancement and items needed for rank advancement will be in there. But not each and every sub-requirement/line signature from the handbook.

 

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

 

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