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Age/Den Rules


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I have a 7 year old who will be 8 in December who DESERATELY wants to be a Bear this year (this will be his first year in Scouts). I think he has a couple of buddies in the Bear Den. As the CM, can I move him up or is he too young? We have signups in early September and don't really "get going" until late September.

 

 

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The big question is ........ What GRADE is he in? If Homeschooled, What school grade should he be in if he went to Public School? Remember the guidelines.....

Tiger - 1st grade

Wolf - 2nd grade

Bear - 3rd grade

Webelos - 4th and 5th grade

 

If he is 7 and in 3rd grade he can be a Bear. If he is 7 and in 2nd grade, then he can be a Wolf.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Diana

Pack 32

Cubmaster

 

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I think your under the illusion that all of the previous ranks must be earned. No the boy starts the earning rank at the age he joins. The only exception to that is the bobcat and everyone earns that.

 

 

As Nut mentioned if he meets the age and grade requirements then he is considered that rank.

 

So what grade is he in? I am going to bet he is in second grade, since most bears are 8 going on 9.

 

Believe it or not there is a tremendous difference in the abilities between tigers, wolves and bears. From the ability to focus to motor skills.(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

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Also consider this. If he is going into 2nd grade now, he will be in a den with other boys who are probably in his class at school. He will either make new friends who carry over to his school grade too, or be put in with some of his current grade-level friends as a Wolf too. And just because he has buddies who are a grade higher and are therefore in a Bear den, doesn't mean he'll never see them. Den meetings are separate, but the pack should also have an entire pack meeting once a month where he'll be with all the boys.

 

One other way to think of this. If he's a year younger than all the other guys in that Bear den, then it might not be a huge deal right now (though I tend to agree on the developmental differences between 2nd-3rd grade being pretty big). But when those other boys are finishing 5th grade and crossing into boy scouts, your boy will still only be in 4th grade. What will he do then? While it is possible that he could join boy scouts as a 10 year old 4th grader if he has earned the arrow of light, will you be prepared at that point to put your 4th grader into a boy scout troop program with kids who are high school seniors? Or would he be better served to have at least gotten through elementary school first? In the former, he'll be the youngest kid in the troop and that's challenging, physically, emotionally, and socially. In the latter, he'd have to wait another year to join his buddies, but he'd have exhausted the cub program already at that point - where would he go?

 

 

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My DS is 7, going to be 8 in December. He is in second grade. He is a Wolf. There really is a difference in the abilities of the Wolf and Bear aged boys. As much as I love the boys in my pack, I have to admit that it will be nice to have them all separated by age for meetings again.

 

The most important thing to remember is that Bear is when they can earn their whittlin chip. I don't know about you, but I can't imagine DS with a knife any time soon. Honestly, as excited as our Bears are about this, there has been some talk of putting this requirement off for a little, just so the boys can get back into the weekly Scout thing and remember calm, inside behaviors before introducing knives to the mix.

 

I would suggest slowing your son down. There are great things that he gets to do as a Wolf. If his desire to be a Bear has to do with his friends, I would suggest attending more of the Pack activities, where which Den you are in isn't as big a deal.

 

mistysmere

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The previous CM in my Pack allowed one of our Scouts younger brother to become a Tiger when he was still in Kindergarten, something I didnt find out until 15 months later when I did the Packs annual recharter. I have been this boys Den leader for four years now, and he has had a very hard time keeping up with his Den mates in the requirement work. For three years the fact that he has had one year less of school has been very apparent and he hasnt really gotten as much as he could out of Scouts as he should.

 

Now the hardest part for this boy is going to come at the end of his second Webelos year. Most of his Den will bridge to scouting in March, or at the latest, the end of May if they havent finished their Arrow of Light. Unfortunately, the Scout who joined a year early will not meet the Boy Scout joining requirements at that time even if he earns his Arrow of Light. That means he wont be able to join a Troop until the following fall at the earliest, over 6 months later.

 

I would strongly urge you to keep the boy in the appropriate age group. Let him make new friends in his Den. Let him know that hell see his buddies at Pack meetings and other outings.

 

On another topic, to mistysmere, there is no requirement that Scouts be Bears to earn their Whittlin Chip. The Guide to Safe Scouting does allow Wolves to use pocket knives and the award is taught to Wolves at most Cub Scout where the award is offered. As you alluded to, individual Scouts maturity level must be considered and regardless of what age they are, some Cub Scouts cannot handle the responsibility of having a pocket knife yet. Thats probably also true of one or two Boy Scouts I know. Never-the-less, Wolves are allowed to earn the badge. Of course, if the Scout earns the badge as a Wolf, hell need to retake the badge as Bear to have it count towards advancement, but I would consider having that information reinforced by a second round of training to be a good thing.

 

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I believe I will just have to put my foot down with this boy. I am quite familiar with the rank structure and the fact that no "catch up" is required, barring Bobcat. I just didn't know how big of a deal it was, I do now. Thanks

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I found out that our pack was playing this game at crossover when one of my soon-to-be-Boy Scouts turns in an application listing his age as 9 (seems like his birthday would have been over the summer) and in the fourth grade. Sorry, no way, no how can I register that kid as a Boy Scout.

 

Turns out his parents decided it would be easier on them if he were in the same den as his older brother. Both boys went through Webelos, both earning Arrow of Light, but until the kid turned 10, there my hands were tied.

 

Supposedly, the younger brother agreed to join one of the Web.I dens and repeat the year. The older showed up for a few meetings, but never joined the troop. What we heard was that the parents didn't didn't have time for boys in different units, the both brothers will join the troop next year. Sure. (And yes, we went through all the stuff we could trying to accommodate the family, so don't write. This is the short version of the story.)

 

The point is, the cub leaders did both these boys a great disservice by pushing the younger brother through. I know the older brother has dropped, and while I haven't heard for sure, I seriously doubt the younger brother is really hanging around to earn his AoL a second time.

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Oy!

 

I find these stories all too common and disturbing. All these rules are detailed in even the most basic training materials and even in the scout handbooks.

 

This summer I met a guy from NJ at family adventure camp in NH. He told me the CM of his Pack promotes kids to the next rank as soon as they earn their previous badge of rank. Example: Your in second grade and earn your Wolf badge. That same meeting, you become a bear scout. He argued the point with the CM and the guy just ignored him.

 

What's the biggest problem in scouting today? Inconsistent program delivery is killing us!

 

Bob

 

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What if one of your boys was held back a grade?

 

We have a homeschooler (Wolf Den) that the parents are trying to decide whether to hold him back and repeat 1st grade. He has already achieved his Tiger badge and is currently working on his Wolf. If the parents hold him back (or more generically, if a school held him back), would he have to be held back and "repeat" Tiger achievement? Or could he continue in his Den (with the other boys his same age, and the other boys he has bonded with)?

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That's a different situation. THe cub requirements list a grade OR age. In the situation you describe, the parents, the den leaders, and the cubmaster ought to sit down and talk about what is best for that boy. I know that when I was a cub leader, we had some boys who repeated the year (to stay with their grade-mates) and some who moved ahead (to stay with their existing friends and age-mates). Both are acceptable.

 

 

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No. At that point you -- or rather the parents -- have some flexibility. I would hesitate to repeat a program year, but my strong advice would be to put him in a den where he is with most of his friends. IMHO, that is one the strongest factor in sticking with Scouting. That could mean he stays in Wolves with his old friends or repeats Tiger with his new classmates. But the choice is for the parents to make.

 

That said, if I were the parents I would probably leave him in Wolves. All other things being equal, since he's home schooled, I assume classmates aren't a big deal.

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