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Arrowhead

BB Shooting certification

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Eagle92,

 

Yes, that is what I understand, but sometimes it is hard to get someone for the timeslot you desire. It helps to have someone in the unit that will be there.

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pfffffftttt,

 

Only at council ranges. We have several packs in our district own their own bb guns and archery equipment. They run them at their own pack outings not at council owned ranges.

 

and with full knowledge of the DE.

 

 

 

 

 

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That sounds like some major liability, probably with no scout insurance coverage. I have the land to do that, but I don't think that I would risk it.

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Basement

I have to agree with the above poster, if an accident happens, I do not believe the liability insurance will cover you, or the charter organization. It's in the G2SS and the unit is expected to have a copy of that document and follow it.

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Wow, Basement....so glad that the packs in your area are teaching the scouts to completely disregard the rules put in place for everyones safety right from the start! oh yeah...and with the knowledge of the DE...nothing like starting them out young....and then wondering why they won't listen to us later on.

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ElyriaLeader:

The Cubs don't know the rules for council,district/pack operations, so they aren't being taught to disobey rules. Heck, many of us had to read this post to know that we were bending the rules.

Save the sarcasm for a more apropros target.

 

Having a trained instructor teach shooting sports in the smaller arena of the pack where a)- you have more control because you know the kids, b)- you have a higher ratio of adult supervision, and c)- you can spend more time with individuals, is certainly a safer scenario. Day camps are usually strangers rushing to push 300 kids through an 8 or 12 bay range before the guns get too hot to touch in the sun.

 

 

 

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Ignorance of the correct way to do things is still not the answer...it is our responsibility as leaders to know what we can, and cannot do with the scouts. As far as smaller groups leading to higher quality instruction, you are absolutely right that you should have smaller groups with shooting sports, our council camp limits the number of attendees to the camp each week, but runs more than one camp week. (oh, and day camp attendees have a parent/guardian with them, it's not a drop off/pick up thing) So the maximum a range officer and his/her helpers will face during a shooting session is 25-30 kids (with attendant parents), 4 sessions a day, and we shoot from under a fly so the kids aren't getting baked. At council events there are 1-2 range officers who arrange the cubs into groups, and do all the safety instruction before the boys get to the firing line (being run by the head range officer), again small groups getting quality instruction, after 1 or 2 events or camp sessions the cubs all know who the range officers are, and great them as such (hi archery Dave, BB Bob...). all of the things you said were good (and they are!) but still being done in the correct manner. If you have 300 kids being rushed through, then perhaps there is a problem with the way the program is being run. but I digress, my point was that ignorance of the rules (just like the law!) is not a valid excuse, nor is the good 'ole boy... wink,wink,nudge,nudge network where you have people in charge allowing activities to go on that are in contradiction to published guidelines.

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Indeed, I agree that operating a shooting sports event for Scouts without regard to the explicit rules and regulations is negligence. I hope the same disregard isn't being used for aquatic events. These two areas are just ripe for catastrophic consequences.

 

The manual for Cub Scout Shooting Sports states that there are to be a maximum of eight BB rifle shooters per range officer. I could find no maximum number of archers per range officer.

 

Best regards,

RAFjr

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The two packs have probably 1/3 to 1/2 of the Cubs in our district in them. We have families driving 1/2 hour past other packs to belong to that group. Popcorn sales in the neighborhood of $35,000 each. The are killing our district. they don't participate in day camp, district campouts, round table or anything they do not directly organize. Completely self sufficient and independent.

 

 

It was brought up to the DE and he changed the subject.

 

 

Again I do not condone the activity, just reporting it. As a matter of fact they even have pictures posted on their website.

 

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It is tough to understand how folks aren't aware that BB & Archery can only be done at District and Council level events. Its printed on ALL the materials - I mean all the Cub Scout manuals, including the ones for the boys. District and Council means that its been SPECIFICALLY approved in WRITING so that the BSA and/or Council Liability Insurance applies. Also, a Shooting Sports Director is required to be on property for the Insurance to apply. The first rule of any shooting sport within BSA is SAFETY. Having someone else check your perimeter, flow, procedures, and lines of sight is really important as we all can get so wedded to our own ideas, plans, and work that we fail to see what someone else with the proper training can seen in an instant sometimes. Since the insurance is run through BSA National in most (all?) instances it seems odd that the rules could vary from District to District as they should be based on the same legal documents.

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The law of averages will eventually catch up with such scofflaws when the higher authority won't enforce the rules.

 

 

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"The two packs have probably 1/3 to 1/2 of the Cubs in our district in them. We have families driving 1/2 hour past other packs to belong to that group. Popcorn sales in the neighborhood of $35,000 each."

 

This sounds alot like my Pack. We have roughly 170 boys in the Pack, with popcorn sales of $35,000 this last year. We however choose to support our District and not break the rules. We looked into having BB/Achery at our campout a couple of years ago, and in the end decided not to even though we had approval of the Council & would be following the rules (ie, council camp ranges, council trained range officers and open to other Packs). In the end, we just didn't feel that it was the right thing to do. As for supporting the district, we support the fall Cub-O-Ree, the March Scout-O-Rama, summer resident camps, and participate in both popcorn and camp-card fundraisers. I'll bet that our Pack is at least as vital and probably MORE active than those two put together. These Packs are simply not being good Scouters, they are not supporting the program if they are soloing it and quite frankly the parents and boys are missing out on the bigger world of Scouting by doing this.(This message has been edited by pack212scouter)

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