My first real parent dilemma

[Melgamatic 16]

After 2.5 years as an ACM, and now transitioning into a CM role, I face my first truly nasty parent situation. I could use your advice.

 

We are a pack of around 50 cubs.

 

We are just finishing our popcorn sale. We set a target goal of $200 per cub, but that's just a request. Many cubs surpassed it, a few hit it, lots missed it, no big deal. One cub and his mother (co-den leader of his Bear den) sold $1400, which is very nice.

 

We had our pack schedule planning meeting in September and planned our 2008-2009 schedule, which includes the Pinewood Derby in January and the B&G in February. As everyone knows there are tons of school holidays and events, various religious holidays, etc, so picking the best times for these is tricky.

 

The mom who sold $1400 worth of popcorn had already planned her winter vacation, and it starts on the day of the Pinewood. She had told me in August that her vacation would be then, but there was no way around putting the PWD then. Any weekend is going to make people unhappy. Last year our CM, who really loves the PWD, was unable to attend with his son due to his own vacation. He was disappointed, but understood. So, while we want everyone to attend, we're really scheduling for the maximum ease for the maximum number of people, and that's when we scheduled it.

 

This mom is very unhappy about this. She told our popcorn kernel that she would submit her $200 of popcorn to our pack, but would "move the sale of the other $1200 to a pack that needed the money." We (the CM, the 3 ACM's and the new and old CC's) were all taken aback, but bit our tongues and didn't say anything unpleasant. We decided not to fight, and just suck it up. We discussed that it was a little flaky (the word fraudulent came up, but that's probably a little strong) that they sold popcorn under the guise of supporting our pack, within our town, but again, we're just letting it go.

 

Today I just got a call from our Council's popcorn executive (whatever it's called, the pro in charge of popcorn), telling me that he got the call from the mom, asking to move the $1200 of sales to a needy pack.

 

The thing that surprised me is that she told him that she wanted the money to go to another pack "because she didn't approve of the way the pack spent the funds."

 

This was pretty surprising to me. We spend our funds the way most other packs do, I imagine. Awards, meeting programs, that's about it. We had some more money left over last year than expected and bought all the cubs the handbook, neckerchief and slide for their next rank. Nothing strange going on.

 

So, in my mind, it's turned from a bitter parent taking her little vengeance on us (which I comprehend) to a bitter parent telling a district executive that she believes our pack is irresponsible with our money. This is an entirely different ball of wax, in my mind. I'm no longer sure that my "suck it up and move along" philosophy is applicable.

 

(Interestingly, when the council guy asked her if she was therefore planning to move to another pack, she told him that she would be staying with our pack.)

 

So, I guess I'm going to try to stay quiet, stay nice, and move on, but being accused of not using the pack's money correctly really sticks in my craw.

 

Looking forward to your opinions,

Melgamatic

 

[JAYMEDINC 10]

I'm new to this whole scout leader thing. But to me it sounds as if it would be appropriate to remove her from being the Co-Bear leader for lying. She told you one story and the popcorn professional another story. Someone is being lied to and no Cub Scout Leader should be in that position if they are a lier. There is no co-leader in the organization chart anyway. (that I know of)

 

Like I said, I am new. Hopefully someone with the proper experience will chime in soon.

[DYB-Mike 10]

Hi Melgamatic,

 

Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face! I wonder if shes given any thought to that she may have cost her son and his buddies a free fieldtrip or some such benefit by her actions.

 

Just curious, did the Council rep move the sales? I tend to agree with you about misrepresentation to those who bought the popcorn. It doesnt seem right.

 

What was the Council reps reaction to the accusation of poor funds management? Judging from your reply they didnt put much stock in it.

 

Taking your story at face value, in my mind this moved beyond simple sour grapes when she brought the Council into it. Who else is she spreading this misinformation too? Families within your Pack may be happy with how Pack funds are spent but those outside the pack, potential recruits or future popcorn customers, might be put off by this gossip. It could even reflect badly on your Charter Organization and also the Committee and Treasurer personally.

 

I personally would say something. Try approaching her in a pleasant but businesslike way and say something like I have heard from Council that you have some complaint about how the Pack uses its funds. Would you mind bringing your concerns to the Committee so we can give them some consideration? If, as you suspect, shes just bitter and theres no real foundation to her accusations then I would ask her to please stop spreading such misinformation. I would even go as far as to request (nicely) that she call Council and retract her accusations. If she refuses or becomes belligerent then you might want to consider asking her to find another pack if shes that unhappy, although if you dont want to penalize the son you might just want to let it go at that point. At least you would have put her on notice that such behavior is not acceptable.

 

Have you had any other issues with her before this?

 

Good luck!

 

YIS,

Mike

 

 

 

[Gold Winger 9]

I wouldn't think that a Den Leader could move popcorn sales from one unit to another. Maybe a committe could but what would be the point, if you wanted to support the other unit just donate cash.

 

This is really a Committee issue, since finances are a committee problem. Perhaps the best thing to do is to invite the grumpy mom to find another pack to serve.

[Greg Nelson 10]

We had someone with a similar attitude a few years back. (Raising a lot of funds, then thinking that translated into having veto power over the pack calendar.) It never got to the type of situation you're in, but it was sure annoying.

 

If I were a DE, and received a bizarre request like this (move my son's money, but keep my son in the same pack), that by itself would lead me to assume the person isn't playing with a full deck, and to more or less disregard anything she had to say. So I doubt the DE is thinking you're a spendthrift.

 

I would stick with the "suck it up" plan unless she becomes disruptive to pack operations.

[CalicoPenn 729]

So what was Council's reaction? Did they acquiese to the mother demand or are they just quietly not doing anything at all?

[Eagle92 110]

A couple of things and I am doing this from memory , so you Popcorn Kernals correct me if I am wrong.

 

1) All of a unit's scouts turn in forms via their unit and the unit gets credit for the sales. Once in the system and prizes and cash are distributed to the units it's a done deal and out of the council's hands.

 

2) This is a unit matter, specifically CO and committee, and the pro should have told her such.

 

3) If their is a problem with this leader, the CC needs to be informed ASAP since they need to take care of it. Whether it's pursuing her wishes, readjusting the units use of the money, or removing her from her position.

 

4) You personally should limit your dealing with her, and always have others around when you must deal with her until this matter si fully resolved.

[Basementdweller 608]

I agree with most of the advice mentioned earlier. Make sure you always have a second person around with your dealings with her. I would definately have a chat with the COR and CC for sure.

 

not very scouting that is for sure.

[GKlose 24]

This is bizarro, if you ask me.

 

It's not like I have any great command of social skills, but in this kind of situation I'd most likely say something like "we can't schedule pack activities around any single family's vacation schedules, and if you are unhappy with that policy, you may be happier in Pack over at ".

 

Popcorn money, or not, seems to be beside the issue. She's being punitive, for ridiculous reasons.

 

guy

[scoutldr 726]

It's still not clear if the sales were actually moved to another unit. Not sure how that can happen...I believe it SHOULD not happen. IMHO, popcorn sales should be credited to the unit in which the scout is registered...period. Since the unit is owned by the CO, participating (or not) in popcorn sales should be the purview of the CO. If I were the COR of this unit, I would be incensed if someone at Council took funds from my unit and gave them to another unit without permission. In fact, it may cause me to not renew the charter. If the parent in question is unhappy with the way that Pack funds are being spent, she can either file formal, specific charges with the Council, or find another unit who will bow to her bullying.

[OldGreyEagle 5]

I think I agree with the "suck it up" mentality, until she called Council. She has laid out an accusation of fiscal impropriety. I think the Cub Master and Treasurer should approach the woman, tell her that her complaint of fiscal irresponsibility to Council was relayed to you from Council and you need to know exactly what she is talking about to either correct the situation or provide an explnation to her, the plaintiff. I was going to say complainer, but plaintif sounds better even if this isnt a legal thingie.

 

Yeah, you may lose the family, but if this is her motus operandi, as my dear Polish Grandmother would say "small loss"

[DYB-Mike 10]

As I read the other comments I realized I left something important out.

 

If you choose to call her on it, and I think you should, dont do it by yourself! The buddy system protects adults as well. Make sure you have at least one other person with you when you approach her on this issue. The Committee Chair or Treasurer (if not both) makes the most sense since the accusations reflect on their leadership and trustworthiness.

 

YIS

Mike

 

[adamsdwa 10]

We've been going through similar type things in our pack and district. Money should never be an issue in Scouts. Isn't this all about fun? Nonetheless, these things tend to come up.

 

1. Excellent advice - this is a committee/COR decision and this lady can not dictate what happens.

2. DE needs to refer back to pack and stay out of the middle of it - he can only alienate folks and he/she has to work with everyone.

3. If this lady is a leader - is she trained - I would guess not since she is unaware fo the proper organizational structure. It falls upon the leadership of the pack to get her trained. If she is trained, then that is a whole new set of problems.

4. Talk now in a way that preserves each person's diginity and respect. Settle the issue face to face with the CC and/or the COR before it gets out of hand.

5. As a part of this resolution, she needs to learn how issues are handled and the proper method for doing so, if she does not concur, perhaps she should be removed. Prepare for gossip and hard feelings, and no one wins here.

 

Lastly, make this about the boys - so long as you, your leaders, your pack, and your committee remember that the first priority is the boys - you can't go wrong!

[gcnphkr 11]

I'm not sure how a council could move money from any fundraiser other than Scout-o-Rama ticket sales (funds from which are generally placed in an account held by the council and can only be used to pay council). The money from popcorn sales it given to the unit. The unit then pays the council about 65% of the gross. The unit keeps the rest. If the scout/parent does not give the money from the sale of the popcorn to the unit then the unit is still on the hook for the cost of the popcorn. Failure to turn those funds over to the unit would be some sort of larceny and considering the amount involved could be a felony. It is not her money to determine how it is to be apportioned. If the committee chooses, it could gift money to another unit, in this case about $400. But it would be under no obligation to do so anymore than a business would be to give its profits to a competitor just because a salesman wasn't approved for leave on a given date.

[ScoutNut 147]

This lady is a nut job and is creating a mess for a lot of folks.

 

Who is going to be ordering this popcorn? Who is picking it up? Who is sorting it out? Who is delivering it to her? Who is collecting the money? Who is paying Council?

 

I'm sorry, but if I was the Popcorn Kernal for your Pack I would have told her to fill out a new form with ONLY the $200 worth of popcorn on it and the incentive prize for the $200 level only. I would have given her an empty form and told her to give the rest of her order to the unit of her choice. There would be NO WAY I would put myself out, and go thru all of the paperwork nightmare, to satisfy her sense of spite.

 

As to her nasty comment to the District Popcorn Chair, I agree with Mike. I would make a point, at the very next Pack Leaders Meeting, of mentioning to her that I had heard she had some problems with how the Pack was spending its monies, and request that she clarify what exactly she felt the problems were so that the group could act on them immediately if necessary.

 

I would also keep a close eye on her, from her actions she has proven herself untrustworthy. She is trouble waiting to happen.