Tiger Den Leader & ACM

[Rythos 10]

I am a trained (as of a month ago)first year Tiger Den Leader (I have my arrow of light, but only made it to second class in Boy Scouts) and I am being recruited to be an ACM.

 

Our current CM inherited the position in a leadership defection at the end of spring, but only wants the job for 18 months until his son crosses over. He would like me to drop being a tiger leader and be an ACM instead. My son really wants me to be his den leader. Is it possible to do these two jobs well at the same time?

 

Our CM seems to approach it as a either/or proposition, (despite the fact he is intricately involved in running his son's Webelos den) but since we are moving towards using program helps to mirror the national program I think there will be much less time needed to set up the tiger den meetings.

 

I seek the thoughts of learned sages of scouter.com

 

Rythos

 

[John-in-KC 311]

The one disadvantage I see is that an ACM's biggest time elements are at Pack family campouts (if he's the BALOO trained person) and helping run Pack meetings. For both of those, I think you should be leading your charges in your Den, so effectiveness is a bit on the ?? side.

 

Is there someone who can be your ADL?... or perphaps better, step up to Tiger DL, so you can be ADL there and ACM for the Pack?

 

Lots of ways to combine this, and I believe you should be around for the long haul... not burning yourself out the first two years!

 

Others will weigh in, and there's really no single right answer here.

 

YIS and KISMIF, John(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[PACK15NISSAN 10]

Please note: I am not 100% sure about this is BSA policy (I am sure some one will correct me if it's not).

 

All leaders have to be registered with the BSA and you can only register for one position. Therefore you can't technically be a ACM and a Tiger DL or Tiger ADL.

 

You could kind of do what John said, be the ACM and help with the Tigers. If you Pack is like ours this is a lot of planning for the ACM but he doesn't really have to do a lot during den meetings. You could go "assist" with the Tigers and still be available as the ACM if needed during den meetings. The same things goes for campouts and outings, as long as you plan and organize what is needed and available as the ACM, you can still be with you son in Tigers and be the unofficial ADL.

[Karen_216 10]

As a tiger DL use the shared leadership aspect of Tigers. Each family hosts a month of activites and you just act as coach and contact person. you plan out the year which is not too hard and have each family sign on for a month. Everything is in the book and you can also use other resources to help plan.you can also take dirctly from Scouting mag if you use the themes. This way you are not doing all the meetings yourself. Also good is the suggestion of being a ADL. You are still involved but all the burdon is not on you.

Ask what roles you are being asked to take over in the pack. I know many people who are den leaders as well as ACM or other pack positions. Ideally everyone has 1 role but the CC should work on recruitng new adults.

[Cubmaster Randy 10]

You said your son would like really like for you to be his den leader. Would he be open for you to be up front at the pack meetings instead

You cannot register for both positions. The only postion you can dual register for is COR , Well Tiger Cub Adult partner too

 

Doing both is another matter altogether. You might feel you are getting pulled in 2 different directions depending on how much your cubmaster relies on his ACM and/or if your ADL is up to par.(This is more for next year as the adult partners should be able to handle the den this year. The Tiger Cub den leaders responsiblities vary from a wolf/bear because of sharedleadership

 

Keep in mind that you are probably being groomed to take over in 18 months as the Cubmaster. Is this the track you are prepared to do. Both postions are rewarding.

[ScoutNut 147]

As others have stated, you can only be registered in ONE position. Either Asst CM or Den Leader. You can, however, hold more than one position informally. This is not recommended (and probably why your CM wants you to drop DL) by BSA because it is felt that you should concentrate on doing that one job to the absolute best of your ability, which would possibly not happen if you are trying to do 2 or 3 jobs at once.

 

Also, you mentioned that your current CM will only be CM for the next 18 months. It sounds like he wants you to step up to replace him as CM at that time. You need to decide if that is something you would like to do.

 

With the Tiger Den using Shared Leadership among the families, a Tiger Den Leader has more help with the den than most. If you think it is something you can handle, you could register as Tiger Den Leader, and be the ACM on the side for, say, the first 4 months. That would give you time to see how you feel about both positions (DL & CM), and give you time to get to know the other families in both the Tiger Den and the Pack.

 

In January you can make a choice of which position really seems to fit you. Then you can either find a Tiger Parent to replace you in the den, or a Pack parent to replace you as the ACM (potential future CM).

 

Remember - This is only if you feel you are up to doing both positions well for the short term.

 

Edited to add -

 

Responsibilities of an ACM -

http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/aboutcubscouts/thepack/acmas.aspx

 

Responsibilities of a CM -

http://old.scouting.org/cubscouts/resources/13-237.pdf

 

(This message has been edited by ScoutNut)

[DenZero 10]

Ill chime in that I think its far more important for a pack to have a good Tiger Den Leader than to have an Assistant Cubmaster. Most packs get by just fine without an ACM. With a willing and enthusiastic TDL already in place, its much easier to recruit Tiger Cubs and get them to stay. Our pack lost all its Tigers last year largely because no one was willing to be Tiger Den Leader. And, since your son wants you to be den leader; that should count for quite a lot.

 

If you do want to take over as Cubmaster, youve got a year and a half to recruit a new Wolf/Bear den leader, or maybe by then youll find someone else willing and able to be the replacement Cubmaster.

 

[meschen 24]

I'm going to agree with Den Zero. I may be reading too much betyween the lines but it sounds to me like the current CM who was drafted into that roll wants to focus on his Den and pass the Pack responsibities to you and hang the Tiger Den.

 

I would suggest that unless there is another enthusiastic parent who wants to run the Tigers, you pass up the ACM role and take care of your son's Den for the next two years. Then sometime next year you can better gauge what is best for the the Den and the Pack.

[DYB-Mike 10]

Greetings All!

 

Rythos, your post hits home with me.

 

Ive been Assistant Cubmaster (trained, registered position) for over a year. My oldest son has crossed over but this fall I will be my youngest sons Tiger Den Leader (already trained, the informal position?) while retaining the ACM position. My ACM predecessor was also a den leader but Im not sure if he juggled both at the Tiger level.

 

Our Pack is small, about 39 boys currently, with a small core of active, position-holding leaders. I enjoy the ACM position, helping to lead Pack meetings and assisting with the planning and implementation of Pack events and activities, but I do envy the den leaders. Our Cubmaster has said to me that at the den level is where all the action is and I can see what he means.

 

Now I know I havent gone through the fire yet and know not of what I speak, but Ill throw in my own two cents worth anyway. The first consideration is what do you WANT to do? For me, this is something I WANT to do. I WANT to lead my son and his den-mates but I also WANT to continue to lead at the Pack level as well. If you feel you are being railroaded into taking the ACM position and your heart really isnt in it then you should decline.

 

Another consideration is the size and activity of your pack. If your pack is large with a lot going on and a lot would be expected of you as ACM then it might be prudent to decline unless you think you can handle it.

 

Do you feel you would be supported as ACM? Are your Cubmaster, Committee Chair and Committee pro-active and do you have a good supply of helpful parents to assist with pack activities? This would make your job as ACM a lot easier. As it was said you will have your Tiger Partner parents and perhaps an Assistant Den Leader and/or Den Chief to help you at the den level.

 

How do your scout and the rest of your family feel about you holding both positions? Do you feel you will have the time necessary to handle the responsibilities of both positions?

 

I will also have the opportunity to volunteer for the Cubmaster or Committee Chair of my Pack in about a years time. Ill see how the Den Leader/ACM goes first before I cross that bridge!

 

Good luck with your decision. I think that if you WANT to hold both positions and would look forward to the challenge then by all means go for it!

 

YIS

Mike

 

[Backwoods 10]

This is a fairly common dillemma in my brief experience. I know many leaders who hold dual positions in their cub unit. I myself was my son's Tiger Den Leader and Cubmaster. I think that in all actuality my son liked me being CM better than Den Leader. It wasn't that he didn't enjoy den meetings, quite the contrary, he just like the fact that I was the big cheese.

 

DYB-Mike gave the best advice I think, that being what do you want to do. The worst case scenario involves you getting involved over your head and burning out, making the experience a net negative for your son.

 

In the end it is not ACM or TDL that you are being recruited for, it is Cubmaster, don't lose track of that. I am willing to bet that the 18 months will shrink to a year or less if you step up. The biggest question you need to ask is how much support would you have in the position, is the unit functioning well? Is there an active and vital committee? If so, then the CM gets to focus on programming only and the Committee makes sure there are enough paper plates for the blue and gold dinner. If the CM has created a one-man show, you should be a bit wary of stepping into the line of fire.

 

For me, I had a great committee, which allowed me to be the dancing bear on stage. We had successful and vital programming and miles of smiles. The added planning and responsibility was well worth it to me. As it turns out my son had a great time and bridged into Boy Scouts this past February. I have eased back into an assistant scoutmaster position in the Troop, which is a LOT less work.

 

GOOD LUCK. Let us know what you decide!