Advice on avoiding a revolt against the Cubmaster...

[KISMIF_Works 10]

OK, to be clear - I am not the CM! :-)

I am looking for advice from all of you regarding how to prevent a split among the leaders and the CM...

 

First a quick bit of background: last year my oldest son joined Cub Scouts as a Tiger cub. Our pack is around 40 boys in size, and our committee consists of the CM, DLs, a treasurer and a secretary. This year I am my son's Wolf DL and am enjoying it. I have a younger son who won't be a Tiger for another couple years, so I feel like I am going to be in this for a while. Last year the pack's CM (who was very well-liked) resigned and a new CM was installed. Nearly from his installment I detected that the other DLs were not 100% behind him. However he talked about trying to improve our pack functions and den programs (stuff like using the Program Helps and getting training), so I was willing to give him a chance.

 

However, if I were to give the CM a grade for his performance so far this year, it would be a C-. Our first couple pack meetings went well, but have since gone downhill. This past month's meeting was a disgrace - no agenda, just him going over announcements for 30 minutes. It is to the point now where parents in my den are calling me to ask if there is an agenda for the pack meeting (basically if they need to attend). He has also failed to follow-up in regards to setting up locations/times for events on a few occasions, where we've then had to change the date or location at the last minute. This makes the pack look very unorganized. I have been told by another DL that our COR is unhappy with the CM because of communication issues, but I have not confirmed this myself.

 

Well this week I was approached by a member of the committee (one of the other DLs) "in confidence" who informed me that he and most of the other members are considering asking for the CM's resignation this spring. He then also asked if I would be willing to take on the CM role once the current CM is ousted!

 

Needless to say I was flattered by his offer, but I need to emphasize here that I am not after the CM's job. I enjoy being a DL and am not foolish enough to take on the CM role as well - it would have to be one or the other. Lining up a new Bear DL for next year does not seem like an easy task.

 

I am of the opinion that while the CM is doing a subpar job, he has been in his role for less than a year and should be given more time to prove himself. I told the other DL this during our conversation, and suggested that we find some way to *diplomatically* meet with the CM to make our issues known. The other DL said he thought that trying to do that would only make the CM defensive and would be pointless. He then said that he and some of the others are to the point where they are considering leaving the pack if the CM stays on.

 

As I started to think about it later, I got to wondering if the CM is even *happy* with his role so far this year? He seems visibly unnerved at times during our pack functions, and probably senses some of the same disrespect from the other DLs that I do. We have talked several times during this year in order to plan events and such, and I feel we have a good acquaintance-type relationship. I think he's a likable guy who just hasn't been getting the job done so far. I'm not ready to say that he isn't capable, but I think the others are to that point.

 

Sorry for the long post, but I felt I should get all of the details in. Have any of you been in a similar situation before, and if so how was it handled? I do not want to be part of a coup, and I do not want to see a volunteer removed when maybe he could improve with a little more time or constructive criticism.

 

[Lisabob 13]

Welcome to the forums. Thanks for the service you give to your pack, and also for your level-headed approach to the situation you describe.

 

A couple of questions/thoughts.

 

1) Has the new CM been through training for his position? If not, is he willing to attend training? If he hasn't done this yet but is willing then there is probably a bit of hope for him. If he hasn't and won't, then I think his days are numbered. And if he HAS gone through training then I am willing to still give him the benefit of the doubt and suppose it wasn't one of the better-run training sessions and therefore he just didn't get much from it.

 

If training is in order for him, offer to help him find out when and where the next opportunity will be. Check around to see who is running this training. Maybe quietly clue in your district training staff that this fellow needs some friendly guided conversation over lunch at training day, to help him better understand the program. See if you can get many of the DLs to attend too (even if they have in the past) - as a group you might learn a lot, about the program and about working together as a team.

 

2) You mention having practically no committee. Is it possible that the CM is overwhelmed (and therefore dropping the ball) because he's really trying to do the job of the whole committee, PLUS being CM?

 

If that's the case, well the poor fellow is probably really regretting allowing himself to be talked into being hte CM. In fact he may feel he was set up for failure. In this case the adult leaders with the help of the CO need to provide this guy with support in the form of a functional committee. It is not supposed to be the CM's job to plan all pack activities!

 

If you can develop a real committee then you might also ask the district training folks if they would come to your unit and do a "committee challenge" training session (with or without the CM present, but I'd say with if possible). This training, if done well, helps the committee do a little team building in addition to learning their roles and responsibilities.

 

3) Why did this fellow agree to be CM? Was it because nobody else was willing? Did the CO twist his arm? Maybe this was never the job for him and he knows it. In that case you will all be happier if you can provide him a volunteer position that is a better fit with his skills and interests. Maybe he's a better den leader (though probably not, if he's reading 30 minutes of announcements at pack meetings!) or a better committee member in a more minor role. See if you can find him a way to make a graceful transition to a more suitable position if this fits.

 

4) Has anybody else sat down with him and talked about this? As you say he may not be happy with his own performance but just doesn't know how to get out of this uncomfortable hole he's in. A friendly conversation and quiet offer of mentoring (maybe a trusted adult from another scouting unit that has been successful, or your pack's unit commissioner, or a helpful member of the CO with experience in cubbing, or whoever) might be in order.

 

Sometimes you have little choice but to take action and oust a really unsuitable leader. But from your posts it sounds more like this guy might just be overwhelmed, and has something to offer either once he has more support, or else in another less stressful position with the pack. It would be too bad for the group to start out by burning their bridges with him.

[ScoutNut 147]

You said he was an advocate of training, is he trained? Are any of the DL's trained? Do you have a Committee Chair? Does the COR attend any Pack meetings or functions? Do you hold monthly Pack Leaders Committee meetings? Do you have any idea if your Pack has a Unit Commissioner?

 

As part of your monthly Leaders Committee meeting you should be critiquing the last month's Pack meeting and activities. This would be the perfect time to bring up problems to your CM.

 

Have your COR contact your District Commissioner to find out who your Unit Commissioner is. Have your UC and/or your DC attend the next Leader Committee meeting and the next Pack meeting. The job of the Commissioner is to help units solve problems.

 

It should be your Committee Chair (CC) and your COR who invite your CM out for an informal talk about how the Pack is doing, not the den leaders. If the CM will not feel like he is being beat up on, your UC would be a good one to include also.

 

Good Luck!

[Novice_Cubmaster 10]

Hi KISMIF,

 

I agree with Lisabob's 2nd point. I think the problem may not lie so much with the Cubmaster, but more with the lack of depth in your committee.

 

You were saying, "He has also failed to follow-up in regards to setting up locations/times for events on a few occasions, where we've then had to change the date or location at the last minute. This makes the pack look very unorganized. I have been told by another DL that our COR is unhappy with the CM because of communication issues"

 

Sounds like you need an Events person and a Communications person on your Committee. Being a Cubmaster (like any scouter position) is a full time job in itself. Maybe your CM would be a better CM if that's all he had to focus on. Even if you replace your current CM with somebody that's more Cubmasterly, you could still use some more people handling committee work.

 

NC

[DenZero 10]

This sounds a lot like our pack 2 years ago. The new Cubmaster started out with enthusiasm, but was soon in over his head. Since there wasn't a functioning committee, no one stepped in to help him out or raised a red flag that there were problems. At the end of the year the pack lost two thirds of the members, and almost didn't recharter, hasn't recovered, and is still likely to fold.

 

Don't wait. If you want the pack to continue, offer to be assistant Cubmaster or Committee Chair, and help out the poor guy. While you still have enough families, talk with all the parents and see if you can get more help. By the end of the school year it may be too late. Parents will run for the exits when they get frustrated with the leadership.

 

 

[KISMIF_Works 10]

Thanks for the replies and advice. I will address your questions to the best of my knowledge.

 

Regarding training, I'm not sure if he attended CM training this year or not. I know he was talking about going but I attended a different session than the one he was talking about (I went to DL training this year). So looking back I can't recall if he ended up going or not. Our DLs are trained except for the Tiger DL, who may be but probably isn't.

 

As a newcomer last year I wasn't really privy to the selection process (or possible lack thereof) for the new CM. I do get the feeling, however, that he landed the position by default. I know that one of those people turned down the role due to lack of time - that is the DL that contacted me. Now if he was asking me to support installing him as the CM I would understand this is a simple power-grab, but he is adamant that he doesn't have the time for the position.

 

Lisabob, Novice_Cubmaster and DenZero - I think you've hit on to something with regards to our small committee and his possibly being overwhelmed. To be honest I'm not sure how our committee is structured (if we have a formal CC and who it is), but I am going to look into it. I do know that it's only a small handful of the same people (mostly the DLs and the CM) at the meetings each month.

 

You've all made good points that I think can be summed up as:

 

1. There is some misconception about how much work the CM should be doing by himself. It may be that the previous CM just did all of this on his own, but that it's too much for most others to do on their own. The CM needs an ACM.

2. Our committee is mostly DLs who don't have time to take on much outside of their DL responsibilities. We could really use a couple members who don't have any DL/CM duties to take on administrative tasks like coordinating events.

 

The question I have now is how do I proceed to help?

 

ScoutNut - you suggested having the COR, CC and (possibly) UC meet with the CM. I agree this may be a good idea, but it depends on if we have a formal CC and who that person is. If it's the DL who contacted me in confidence then we may have a problem, because between him and the COR (who is supposedly upset with the CM) the meeting could put the CM on the defensive. Also, I have yet to see the UC at any of our pack functions, so if she were to all of a sudden meet with him it might make him curious and create some bad feelings (e.g., "who ratted me out?").

 

I think at this point in time I need to meet with the others in order to try to sell them on this course of action, but am leery of doing it behind the CM's back.

 

I also think it could be useful to have a heart-to-heart with the CM only to see if he wants some help and to offer my help as an ACM, but am worried about how that may be perceived by the others. There is also the outside chance that he mistakes it as a power-grab attempt.

 

What I'm trying to say is that I want to avoid creating more drama.

[Its Me 10]

 

At the end of the year, sack him.

 

You will be doing both the pack and him a favor.

 

 

[KISMIF_Works 10]

Its Me - that seems to be the consensus from the others in our committee, but what is your reasoning for it?

 

I see some disadvantages to ousting him:

 

1. We lose an adult volunteer who is willing/able to help the pack. We don't have a large number of them today.

 

2. The bad feelings this would create for him and his son, who won't be crossing over to BS for a few years.

 

3. Who will replace him? Obviously it could be me but then who will replace me as DL for the Bears next year?

 

4. Does it address the real problem in the pack? Maybe his replacement won't do any better without adding some help. There is always the possibility that the existing committee members would chip-in more help if they liked the replacement CM better, but that's not a certainty.

 

I think no matter what happens with the CM there will need to be a concerted effort to recruit some additional adult help for next year. I'm thinking along the lines of one-on-one visits with the involved parents, and I think that's something I am going to try to spearhead.

 

 

[Cheerful Eagle 10]

Hi KISMIF,

 

I have to say that if you, the den leader, can't think of who the committe chair is fo your pack, you don't HAVE a pack comittee. At the very least, even if you have a very small pack, there ought to be someone at the monthly leader's meeting who is NOT a den leader or Cubmaster, who has taken responsibility for keeping track of all the administrative details of the pack. If the cubmaster is expected to do that, he is essentally being required to wear two hats.

 

This year we too had a new CM take over from a fellow who had been leading the pack for 4 years -- well past the collective memory of the current leadership. The previous guy was VERY active in most aspects of the Pack, which was great, BUT created some friction when the Current CM was not as active. He is fulfilling his role as CM, just not taking on all the ADDITIONAL responsibilities his predecessor had. It took some of us outsiders (I moved to the Pack from a different state last year) to remind the "oldtimers" of the LIMIT on the responsibilities of the CM.

 

I really encourage you to work out some way to do some "peacemaking" with your current CM.

 

You're right, you do want to avoid driving this fellow and his son away from scouting. I'll bet previous cubmaster made it look so easy, he didnt really realize what he was getting into. If I were him, I'd be feeling pretty down by now and ready to throw in the towel. Late winter is always hard, because you are never quite able to fully realize the dreams you had at the year's beginning (if you are a dreamer like me). Perhaps he's focuing on the announcments because the admin is all he has time to do.

 

But what ever happened to the dens providing skits, songs, den displays etc. to the Pack meeting? Do any of the den leaders have ANY sence of ownership of the pack meeting?

 

Remind the den leaders that no one enjoys failing and we should avoid shooting our wounded. Encourage them to look at how they can be part of a win-win solution for the whole pack.

 

At the very least, don't let anyone guilt you into being a CM. And if you do consider it, make a functioning, trained Committee Chair a requirement for your committment! Do not even consider wearing more than one hat. That is a clear recipe for burn-out.

 

 

 

 

[SM in NJ 10]

Hi KISMIF -

 

Interesting dilemma you've got. As someone who was an ACM for the 6 yrs my son was in Cubs (and now SM for the better part of 3 yrs), I've had a bit of experience dealing with what appear to be less than qualified individuals. When I was an ACM our CM was beyond less than respected (nor was he respectful of others), however (and unfortunately) no one was willing to ask him to step aside. As a consequence, we were forced to "work around" him. In my case, we were fortunate that we had a solid group of Assistants as well as a solid (and separate) committee. This made "marginalizing" the CM's less than stellar performance much easier.

 

In your situation, I'd say the first thing you need to do is make sure that your Pack as an executive committee that is NOT the uniformed leadership. Forty Scouts = 80 parents. Surely you should be able to get other parents involved from and organizational standpoint. It seems to me that your CM is doing alot more than he should be, as has been mentioned by others, I think your SM is probably overwhelmed and possibly in a position that he wasn't really interested in taking over in the first place.

 

I wouldn't worry about "going behind the CM's back." Your loyalty needs to be to the boys and to the Pack. Hurting an adult's feelings should the last thing you worry about. Definitely get in touch with your local Council and see what they can do to help. Perhaps the DC or UC can get involved in straightening things out.

 

Also talk with your COR ... after all HE had to approve the CM before he could take over in the first place. Perhaps the COR can have a word with the CM to see if he feels overwhelmed.

 

Though, I do believe your first course of action should be to establish a separate committee that is independent of the uniformed leadership.

 

JMO

SMNJ

[Its Me 10]

 

Your description of the CM's performance was one of neglect or that of an uninspired leader. So if he lacks the inspiration for the position there is likely other circumstances. For instance, his spouse might be saying you are spending too much time or his kid might be asking him not to be CM. What ever it is he can't delivery the program. Leaders will come to fill in the gaps. Especially if you come in and hold meetings and stick to a solid annual plan.

 

Handle it well and the bad feelings will heal over the summer. Besides its better to have one angry family than 39.

 

 

 

 

 

[CalicoPenn 729]

I'm going to suggest that it isn't the Cubmaster that is failing - it is all the other Leaders in the Pack that are failing. You state that the other DL's were not behind the Cubmaster 100% when he first started. From that moment on, the Pack failed the Cubmaster - not the other way around. When the Cubmaster accepted the job, the Den Leaders should have rallied behind him immediately, or stepped aside if they felt they couldn't give 100% of their support to the new top dog.

 

You seem to want to take the correct course here - and that's sitting down with the Cubmaster and asking how you can help. This is not a time for a sit down with the Cubmaster and point out his flaws session. This is a time to tell the other DL's to take the mote out of their own eyes, to look at how their own actions and lack of actions have harmed the unit, to look at their own flaws, and start working to support the Cubmaster 100% - an easy fix - to start - would be for each Den to take responsibility for planning at least one Pack Meeting a year - thats the songs, skits, color guard duties, etc. etc. etc. - then let the Cubmaster do what Cubmasters should be doing - run the Pack Meeting (note I said run - not plan - he should be the MC that steps up when its time to switch gears), hand out the awards, congratulate the boys, motivate the Den Leaders, motivate the boys, motivate the parents. In essence, the Cubmaster's main job is to be the "Alpha Wolf" of the Pack - the public face of the leadership, the guy/gal that accepts the public credit for all the work without actually doing all the work OR taking credit for all the work (for those having a difficult time understanding how that works, it means the Cubmaster, like the CEO of a business, accepts the public accolades on behalf of the rest of the Leaders of the Pack). The next fix is to get a Pack Committee - you don't appear to have one - you appear only to have program leaders - and that's not enough.

 

We all emphasize training as that all important tool to make one a success in one's Scouting role - but it occurs to me that we fail to note what the most important tools are for a Cubmaster/Scoutmaster - and it isn't training. The most important tool for a Cubmaster/Scoutmaster are the other adult leaders around him. Its very true that one is only as good as one's tools. Stop "grading" your Cubmaster, gather your fellow DL's, and remind them all that the Cubmaster succeeds or fails as you succeed/fail. You are his tools - and as such, you are the most important ingredient in his success. If he succeeds, you all succeed. If he fails, you all have failed.

 

Calico

[BuffaloSR793 10]

I have one question....

 

Does he care about Scouting and the boys???.

 

If he genuinely cares about the boys and wants to do a better job, get some Assistants to help him. If he cares, you have something to work with.

 

 

If the CM could care less about the boys or his performance. Its time to look for another leader. I agree with handling it carefully.

 

The Cubmaster is the ringleader, the showman and the father figure the boys will look up to.

 

 

Jeff

 

 

 

[Bob White 20]

Other than setting a good example in the way you lead your Den and being positive in your interactions with the Cubmaster and other leaders, there is probably nothing you can do about this issue.

 

The biggest problem the unit has is lack of administative help. Without a trained committee chair and an active charter organization representative this issue will either end badly, or drone on for a prolonged period of time.

 

Someone needs to be selected to become the committee chair and bring leadership and direction to the unit.

 

I hope that someone is found soon, for the sake of the boys.

[SM in NJ 10]

Calico brings up a very valid point ... are there any ACMs? If so, what is there function within the Pack.

 

Also as has been pointed out - the DLs should have been behind this person from the get go. Apparently they were not and for that, they should all be ashamed of themselves. Its all well and good for them to point fingers at the CM and say he's doing a poor job and whine about wanting to go elsewhere ... but what have THEY done to improve a situation to which they have contributed? It sounds like they've done nothing but complain.

 

You as the apparent voice of some reason need to bring everyone together and get your Pack working in a proper fashion. That means a proper division of responsabilities ... starting with a trained CC and proper board.

 

SMNJ