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If there had been a way, we would have made room, unfortunatly we do not have the physical facilities available to us to expand. We are limited to one block of rooms, one night a week. We had 4 new Webelos join this year, and had to turn this and the one before him away due to size limits. We actually wound up merging one of our Wolf dens into the others when we lost the use of two rooms. I think that this is the first year that we''ve had to turn anyone away, but it is a construction year. Like I said it was not a choice that we liked or one that had to do with the parent''s attitude. As for making sure that members of the CO can always join...our CO is about 15,000 families...I would say thankfully more don''t want into the Pack, however, I prefer the problem of figuring our how to find room somewhere or helping them into another Pack. It shows a positive interest in Scouting.

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LOL...if only it were that simple. You wouldn''t believe what we have to go through sometimes. Having a CO of that size is just like having a Pack our size. It has both advantages and disadvantages. Like I said, we have never had to turn boys away before, so I''d say our Pack is about the right size for the situation. I''m looking forward to when the construction project is completed so that we have a better picture of where we are facility wise. :)

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I am impressed.

 

Eighteen Dens. 8 to ten (or more) boys each? And the CO limits rooms on one night for meeting? This CO needs to see the success this represents. Is this the only ''Childrens Ministry'' here? This is a religious organization, I would guess. The Pack leadeship should be rightly proud of doing something right.

 

Possibilities:

* Is there any legality/problem/ with Scout mitosis... Could the CO sponsor TWO Units? And arrange to meet different nights?

* Do Unit parents have some connections to arrange for the Pack to meet at another location? VFDept? School cafeteria? Somebody''s extralarge rec room?

* The traditional Den meeting is in someones Rec Room (DL?). Could Dens (some? all?) meet in family rec rooms and then meet for the once a month Pack meeting at the CO?

 

** I agree that the parents attitude indicates a possible problem, BUT... his desire to have his boy in a demonstrably excellent program, in his own CO, speaks worlds, despite his tantrum. Find a way to harness that energy. Recommend him to the District leadership?

 

KiS MiF YiS...

 

 

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Ugh, please don''t send him on to district! Who wants to work with someone with that level of self-importance and rudeness?! Not me...if this fellow showed up to a district meeting around here and behaved as described in the initial post, one of two things would happen. Either everybody else would quit (who needs it?) or he''d be asked to leave. Lose-lose-lose all around.

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As others have said maybe there is part of this that either isn''t here or I''m just not getting?

If I were the "Irate parent" And I know I''m not!

I think my next phone call would be to the Executive Officer of the Chartering Organization.

If I really am a member of that organization??

The Pack is a youth program offered by the organization and I kinda think that my kid has the right to belong to the youth organization that is part of the organization I''m a member of.

I think if I were to C0; I''d be unhappy that members were being turned away.

Dens do not have to meet in the rooms provided by the CO (Packs should!!) Back when I was a Webelos Scout Den Leader, the Den met in house and used my back yard for games.

RE: "Would any of you want this parent as a leader in YOUR Pack?

Again in a unit with an active CO the final word on that is the CO''s.

Ea.

 

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A CO with 15,000 families! Wow! In our area that''s larger than the entire town, by maybe several times...including the college students! And I think there are about 12 churches in this town, maybe more if I count the little ones way out on the fringe. I''d say three packs, easily. Unless the age structure is weighted heavily toward the ''over-the-hill'' side. You could also be your own school district and maybe start a small college. WOW!

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Pack212Scouter said, "Our Den sizes are stretched to their limit. At what point would you say it has to stop? 15? 20 boys per den?"

 

11... once you reach 12, you have enough for two dens.

 

Pack212Scouter said, "We had 4 new Webelos join this year, and had to turn this and the one before him away due to size limits."

 

Sounds like you had a pre-existing den of nine and passed up on a chance to from a new den of six.

 

Are the rooms provided by your CO the only place your dens can meet? I can see the need for special facilities for a pack meeting but a den of six to eight boys does not require special resources to meet... all they need is a family room, a basement, or a garage... that's part of the reason six to eight is recommeneded.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

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We will have more irate parents, when they see the mess we made out of Scouting. Cubbing is not Scouting, but a baby sitting organization, run by Den mothers, Den leaders. In my oid days ,a boy went to become a weblow for one year, to get aquinted what Scouting .. Then he crossed over into real Scouting, and not the so called ''boy run''. boys club, where most of them don''t even wear the uniform. Scouting got watered down, to Tiger cubs, and soon we we will have '' Diaper Scouts ''(ha,ha,) Yes, dear Irate parent...there is something to be concerned.

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Jambo:

 

Do you have something to add to the topic at hand? If not, please take your insulting, trolling behavior elsewhere.

 

There are many people in this forum who work very hard to make Cub Scouting a positive experience for the boys. I don''t consider myself a "baby sitter" in any sense of the word. What I am is a hard-working volunteer who makes it possible for elementary-aged boys to have outdoor experiences and learn life skills that simply are not taught in school.

 

I''m not sure why you hold "den mothers" in such disdain. Some of my pack''s best leaders are mothers working hard to make their sons better young men. I think your contempt of the boy-led concept is also misguided, as well as completely irrelevant to the subject at hand.

 

As for the "good old days" that you yearn for, I was a Webelos (not "weblow") back in the mid-70s, and the program at that time did a far worse job of preparing Cubs for outdoor activity and Boy Scouts than today''s Webelos program that I''m serving up for my current set of boys does.

 

 

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In response to Greg Nelson's critique of Jambo:

I respect your opinion, and I see where you are coming from. But, let's get real , cubing became a glorified 'baby sitting organization', you don't need to look for day care center, anymore , it is called tigers, and etc. We dress them up and parade the kids in front of the parents, and call it Scouting. If you look at the National statistics, only 40 % of former cubs join a real Scouting unit. And when that boy joins that unit, and see's the disorganization of so called "boy run" unit, he quits and joins an organized teen club at church, YMCA, or Boys Club.

Mr. Nelson, before you criticize, I would suggest you do some research. Long live Scouting spirit. jambo

 

 

 

 

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Should I even bite? Sure, why not.

 

Research? OK, last I checked, parents of Tigers were required to attend all den meetings and outings, as well as all pack events. Doesn't sound like any day care center I'm familiar with.

 

It's kinda funny that you mention the Boys' Club. Now that's a group that really HAS turned into a baby-sitting organization. Almost all of their efforts are channeled into after-school care centers, usually in low-income areas. I'm not knocking what the Boys' Club has morphed into - there's certainly a need for what they do - but kids don't really "join" the Boys' Club anymore.

 

None of this has to do with the irate parent topic, though.

 

In our pack, we try to have patience with Cubs who don't always get along with others. Developing that skill in boys is an important part of Cub Scouting. We have much less patience with adults who can't play well with others. My salary doesn't include unwarranted abuse, and I bet yours doesn't either. Just because he pulled his boy from the previous pack, doesn't give him the right to bring his venom into your unit.

 

 

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