Combining Dens

[eagle-pete 11]

The "Super Den" topic reminded me of a common problem which I have seen - Combining Dens

 

Actually, combining dens is more of a symptom of underlying problems. What I have observed is a series of issues and problems which lead up to combining dens.

 

The problem actually begins with, of course, parents and leaders. A breakdown of communication between a Den Leader or the Cubmaster and the parents, or a combination of these key people in the pack, occurs. For example, in our pack, we had separate Wolf and Bear dens. The Bear Den Leader failed having regular weekly meetings and the Cubmaster failed to sufficiently plan and organize a few pack meetings and some other pack activities (of course the Pack Committee is essentially non-functioning). When these problems occur, parents become frustrated and ultimately, boys lose interest or stop attending cubs altogether.

 

The resulting decision of our Chartered Organization was to combine the Wolf and Bear dens, which now have a total of 4 or 5 boys. The reasoning for the decision is, of course, lack of sufficient leadership and less boys in the dens. However, in my humble, trained, experienced opinion, the true underlying reasons began with a breakdown in leadership.

 

My wife, now the Wolf/Bear Den Leader, is doing the best she can keeping the two dens functioning, and providing a worthwhile experience for the boys who attend.

 

I do not advise combining dens for several reasons, the most obvious is, of course, Wolf and Bear age boys have different needs and the two dens should be run separately because they are geared for those ages.

 

I would like to point out that this is a prime example of how things can deteriorate when the program is missing vital parts, like a committee and good, trained leaders.

 

I''d like to help so I am seriously considering approaching the COR and the Cubmaster and offering to join the Committee as a Pack Advisor. As a Trained Scouter and former Cubmaster I may have some experience that could be helpful for the pack.

 

The questions I''d like to pose are what suggestions do you have at this point and how can this be avoided in the future?

 

Eagle Pete

[packsaddle 753]

eagle-pete, Former CM here, too. I say this as often as I can in these threads...I love the cub scouts. I miss the cubs. I''d go back to being a cubmaster if I had the chance.

 

There are no perfect solutions. If your CM is weak, that is almost an unrecoverable problem. When I was CM, only investing one hour a month it was immediately obvious that the CM and the committee must be strong and work well to have a great pack. If the committee fails to live up to their duties then the CM is the source of strength. Working with volunteers almost assures you that problems such as these will arise in any pack. And that is where the leadership skills, not to mention the committment by the parents to the boys, will get things back on track and keep the pack alive.

 

I inherited a weak pack that was dying. I had no idea what I was doing at first but every time I looked at those bright smiles from all those cubs, I knew that I was going to keep plugging away to keep those smiles. I got trained and I worked just a little more than one hour each month. And I was successful. Two generations after I left, the pack almost died again only to be reborn with another really-interested cubmaster.

 

Although we DID combine two bear dens at one point and two wolf dens at another time, we never considered combining different age groups except for pack activities like pack olympics, etc. Man, I do miss those times. But, considering the small number of boys that you mention, I understand the decision to combine the dens.

 

Anyway, all I can offer is encouragement to keep plugging away. I agree with you that the fundamental problem, as nearly always, is with adults. My advice is for you to approach the CM and offer to take over the reins. He might jump at the chance to lay this off on you. THAT would be the beginning of something very good for all those boys.

Good luck!

[John-in-KC 311]

Bottom lines up front: Would you be accepted by the current Committee, Cubmaster and other DLs in a role as "Pack Advisor?" Is this "tilting at windmills"?

 

Reading your writing, and not having the full backstory, I sense there is interpersonal conflict amongst the adults. If the grown-ups are pulling in multiple directions, sooner or later the fabric of the unit will yield. Again, using only your writings, I sense this has happened.

 

I think it''d be more appropriate for the COR to call in the Commissioner Service and ask him to conduct a unit inventory. Let''s see if we can find the root problem: It may be recruiting, it may be program, it may be an adult who cannot/will not "play nice." Two of those issues can be fixed with adult training. The third is a bigger challenge. (BTW, if the COR is cross-qualified as a commish, he/she can do this).

 

Pete, if you come in as a 3d party, you will be considered "the COR''s spy." I can almost promise that. Acceptance? Odds of that are pretty low.

 

There''s a better, lower risk to you (and your bride) alternative to what you proposed. Let''s find it!

[Lisabob 13]

Thinking about this idea of "pack advisor..."

 

1) What you are proposing may be the job of the unit commissioner. This assumes that the pack has one and that the UC is active and reasonably good at doing his/her job. If there isn''t a UC and/or the UC is a ghost, that''s a different problem. But start by finding out what the UC''s status is.

 

2) If you are looking for a pack position, why invent a new one? How about offering to be committee chair? Or, if the pack already has a CC, how about offering your talents as an assistant cubmaster? Does the current CM even want the job? I''ve noticed that many weak packs have a person in either the CM or CC role (or both) who doesn''t want to be there, but is only holding the fort down because no one else seems to be willing to do it instead.

 

3) If #2 isn''t an option - how about offering to plan one or more upcoming pack events? Pinewood derby, pack campout, etc.. Something that the CM might not have time or inclination to do, but where you could help get the pack all fired up about your one-time event. Sometimes you just need to get some momentum going.

 

4) Do you have a child in the pack? You mention your wife is the Wolf/Bear DL. So I''m supposing you do. But if not, be careful of being viewed as an outsider...move slowly and cultivate friendships first.

 

5) If your pack''s DLs (never mind the CM) haven''t been trained yet, you can provide them with 101 reasons to do so and also make sure they all (maybe via your wife) know when and where the next opportunity for training is. The best advice I can offer about having a strong pack is to cultivate strong DLs. They are the ones who will push parents in their dens to get more involved and that''s where your reserve of new pack leaders comes from.

 

Good luck, and I hope you''ll keep us posted.

 

 

 

 

[eagle-pete 11]

Lisabob,

I guess what I may have been thinking is Pack Trainer. However, that is really a position to promote training for the leaders.

 

The current Cubmaster is female and our church (LDS) does not allow male-female CM and ACMs to hold those positions together unless they are married (which we are not). Also, in the LDS Church the Committee does not select a Cubmaster. This is done by the COR, so any changes there are up to him.

 

John,

I see what you mean. I certainly would not want to be construede as a spy. I do think that serving as a CC may be possible. There is currently no Pack Committee Chair. A general Scouting Committee has been organized for our CO. I might be able to serve as a Pack Committee Chair within that committee, not sure.

 

We do have a Wood Badge trained scouter in our organization who can make these kinds of assignments. I will talk with that person and see if he has any suggestions where I can be of best service for our pack.

 

Thank you for all your feedback

 

Eagle Pete

[Lisabob 13]

Ah, ok. Yes, pack trainer is a recognized position and, as someone who was registered in that position, I agree it can be really useful. What I found, though, was that while being PT gave me a sort of bully pulpit to push for all sorts of training/program improvement, it only goes as far as your group of DLs is willing to take it. So, once again, it is at least partly a matter of having a strong group of DLs to work with. I wish you good luck with it! Also, I wasn''t aware of the proscription on non-married CM/ACMs in LDS units - thanks for letting me know about that.

[John-in-KC 311]

I spent my Sept RT offsite from my home District, I was out with my folks in Nevada... it''s actually an LDS-strong District.

 

There are matters of what your local Bishop and your Stake President have as a vision for Scouting in the area. From discussions, there is a far more hierarchical structure for adults than most Chartered Partners and units have.

 

BTW, COR selecting leaders? Sounds like the Scouting system of leader selection to me!

 

If there''s a vacancy in the CC... the leader of the support side of Scouting, then ask to be given the responsibility. Make sure, though, before you do, that you understand your local level vision and goals for Scouting! Active listening will save you agony!

[eagle-pete 11]

John -

 

"BTW, COR selecting leaders? Sounds like the Scouting system of leader selection to me!"

Not quite sure what you mean. It was my understanding that in non-LDS units the Pack Committee has the responsibility of selecting the Cubmaster. Is this not true? This does not occur in an LDS unit. The Bishop(COR) will call a Cubmaster to the position.

 

"Make sure, though, before you do, that you understand your local level vision and goals for Scouting! Active listening will save you agony!"

Absolutely.. I completely agree.

 

Eagle Pete

[jens3sons 10]

eagle-pete,

 

Most of the times that I have seen two dens combine, it has been the same rank of boys joining together. What I would caution against with two different ranks meeting together at the same time is for the boys who are Wolves this year, to make sure you have a game plan for them next year when they are Bears so that you are not presenting "old material" to them and lose even more interest.

 

Sounds like you would make an excellent Asst. Cub master to me! You can assist the cub master where he is failing...even helping to plan those pack meetings! Our current cub master did not like to be in front of the entire pack, and so the Asst. cub master would emcee the pack meetings. Turns out he was a HUGE asset to the pack! Not only did he bring the pizazz, he brought a way of scheduling the pack meetings, by figuring out a time line for the entire night, and would allot an amount of time for each thing and had that list printed out for the cub master and myself (CC) and kept our meeting running smoothly. The cub master still gave the advancements to the boys each month, but the actual "showman" part of it we left to the Asst. Cub master.

 

One of the things that also helped me bring around a "failing" pack, was building up that committee. I now require at least one den leader from each den to be at the committee meeting, and if they can''t be there to recruit one of their parents to be there so that the information is getting back to the leaders, and I am not doing 5-8 committee meetings a month over the phone. We found out....even though I brought the excitement and enthusiasm of what scouting "can" be, that once we started bouncing ideas off of each other, that it grew like wild fire! A couple of great meetings later, and everyone was "hooked".

 

Bottom line....don''t go to the committee meetings ready to point the finger as to what isn''t getting done by whom, but with a lot of enthusiasm, and willingness to "roll up you sleeves" and offer your services.

 

Good Luck!

jens3sons

 

 

[John-in-KC 311]

Pete,

 

Here is where you can download what BSA considers "the process":

 

http://www.scouting.org/commissioners/resources/13-500.pdf

 

This is titled "Selecting Cub Scout Leadership"

[mtm25653 10]

Both of my boys (separately) were in a combined Wolf/Bear den, not because the pack was small, but because of geography - the pack was spread over 3 school districts, probably 45 minutes from one side to another - this den was located in the center - if they hadn''t been combined the boys would have been in dens a long drive on rural roads away.

 

That den existed for proabably 8 years - typically a Wolf parent was ADL, and became DL when their boy became a bear. I don''t find 7 and 8 yo boys significantly different developmentally - at least they are a lot closer than 6/7 or 8/9. Since most advancement activities were done at home, we focused on things both groups could do. It takes more creativity/planning on the part of the leaders, but it can definitely work.