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At what point can a leader be asked to step down?

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We have a leader who is completely ineffective. She is a Tiger leader. She is never prepared or relies soley on the parent participation part of the Tiger program to actually do the entire meeting while she just wonders in with literally nothing in hand and sits down and does nothing, literally. It's a wonder that any Tigers/parents returned after the first meeting of the year, when she had nothing at all for the children to do, while talking to the parents and telling them what to expect during the year (which included telling them, I kid you not, that they'd be looking for a stick as a "go see it" on an upcoming camping trip). As my child is a Tiger, I stepped in and found some craft items around and did an improptu craft with the Tigers. It's been a year of lack of being prepared or knowing what's going on within her Den. The parents have long given up asking her questions or going to her about anything, instead waiting until she leaves the room and asking me or calling/emailing me at home.


At the Pack meetings she is never prepared to give out awards to her Den. She always claims to be unaware of what her Den should be doing for Pack meetings (skit, song, etc). However, this info is in both the Pack calendar and in the monthly newsletter that goes out at the first Den meeting of the month (Pack meetings are the last of the month).


Then there are other issues: Popcorn sales. She sold a good amount, however, when it came time to turn in money, it was a huge issue and the Scout office was calling to see if we needed to press charges against them if they didn't turn it in by a set time. It was a nightmare. We got the $, but her husband (who, btw, was the assistant cubmaster, though did literally nothing either to help out in any shape, form or fashion) then decided to bad mouth myself (I'm the CC), the Cubmaster and treasurer to other parents. He has since gone missing from the program, having apparently decided to not be assistant cubmaster anymore (though this was no actual loss to the Pack). Other issues, bouncing checks written to the Pack (but always claiming it had to be an error on OUR bank's part!). Her son is a Wolf and the Wolf leader has had nothing but behavior issues with him that have her extremely frustrated, feeling that he is taking away from the rest of the den.


I'm new at the CC position this year as is the Cubmaster. There are no rules, regulations, policies of any kind in place from the outgoing leadership. It's been a very learning year and we have come up with a set of policies to help with some of the issues that we've expereinced over the past year.


Back to the leader, she clearly does not need to be a leader. What would be the way to go about this? We need a leader who LEADS, who is prepared, who isn't questionable when it comes to turning in money owed to the Pack.




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It sounds like you have plenty of reason to replace her as the den leader. You should discuss the issues with the Cubmaster and Chartered Organization Rep and come to a consensus on the decision and the approach to be taken. Usually these things are best handled with a sitdown between the leader, the CC, COR and Cubmaster. It may very well be that she has no interest in being a leader and only did so because no one else volunteered. If that is the case, removal may be a relief to her, making the meeting easier. There is also the possibility that she just doesn't understand the role for which she has volunteered. Training may be the answer, although I suspect this is more about her just not caring very much. With the added drama of the father, you should be prepared that this family may very well walk from your program upon her removal. That is unfortunate for the child(ren).


Welcome to Scouter forum.(This message has been edited by SemperParatus)

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"There are no rules, regulations, policies of any kind in place from the outgoing leadership."


You don't have to learn all this from scratch, or make it up as you go. It's all in the Cub Scout Leader Book. The 2006-2007 Program Helps booklet helps with the program part.

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Yah, it's almost the end of the year, eh?


Seems like that's a fine time for you as CC to be "lining up jobs for next year."


First you find someone to take over (ACM, Tiger den, etc.)


Then you sit down and explain that to help with the transition for the boys and the new leaders, new leaders will be "shadowing" the current leader for the rest of the year and the summer as they learn the ropes.


On the side, you give the skinny to da new Tiger den leader, and ask them to do what they can to pull the year-end program together and "take the reins". Give 'em support, find 'em training.


Yah, this can be done as a courteous "ease them out" thing, rather than a confrontation in most cases. If yeh have a Unit Commissioner (ask your DE who it is), they might help, too.


Good luck with it!




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All are good answers,

I would first talk to the parents on the side who are leading the Tiger Den and explain to them that someone needs to take up the roll as the soon to be W/L and A/W/L you will most likely find two parents who will take over, they are doing it any way.


You as the new CC have final say as to the money and also have all the right to know where the money stands at any point. You should have an account that needs to have a double signature on the checks. And you should always have 4 people on the signature card at the bank. The way I have it set up is (CM and ACM, Awards Committee Chair and Treasurer) all should be trust worthy people. Never have a single-family husband and wife solely in charge of the money it can get dicey.


What you should do is like Beavah said bring the COR and your UC into the picture and ask for help that is what they are there for. If that does not work go to the DE. There is a chain of command that should be followed. All the rules and Regs are stamped out for you in the handbook dont try to invent the wheel when it has already been done. Help is only a phone call away.


As far as letting this leader go I would step in and run the den with the other parents and explain to this leader that it is not working out and she needs to step down before you start to loose parents and kids. One of the jobs as a CC is to make sure that things are running smooth and if you need to you are to step in and run things till a leader is found. It sounds like there is trouble at the homestead with this family and it is being brought into the pack.


Be more concerned with finding Den Leaders than with finding an ACM the Pack can run without one for a period of time. But if you dont have Den leaders it could drag you CM and the pack down.


I am very up front and do not beat around the bush with anyone when it comes to the safety and the caring of all my kids in my Pack and thankfully so are all of my Leaders. If there is a problem in anyone of my dens or Pack it is brought out and dealt with ASAP. And if a leader needs to step down they are asked to directly and there is no beating around it. We are all dealing with children here and that needs to always be in our minds first and foremost. The one time that you hesitate could be the one time that you will regret for the rest of your life. I am sorry to put it that way but that is the plain truth of it. As I said I do not beat around the bush.


Say what needs to be said and follow through with it, people will see that this is what Leaders do and you will be setting and example. You will be more respected for it in the long run.


Lifer EKM


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I think I would go with Beavah's scenario of reorganizing for the new year. A positive attitude is always better than a combative one.


I don't think that you should be the one to take over the den, even temporarily. Being CC is a big job & you really should not split your time. By now you know the parents in the den. You know which ones like working with the boys & which ones are good at it. Talk to your CM & COR & come up with a list of 4 who you think would do a good job. Then starting with your top pick, go down the list & PERSONALLY & PRIVATELY, ask each one if they would agree to register as a Den Leader, until you have your 2 new Leaders. Then get them to take all of the online training & sign them up for New Leaders Essentials & Cub Scout Specific ASAP.

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