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Jeffrey H

No BALOO adult - What do you do?

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Another suggestion on a simular subject.

 

As a Unit Commissioner I do not recommend that the CM/SM and CC positions be held by a husband/wife team. Have a unit I am working with right now that the CM (husband) has been transfered out of state. THe CC (wife) is of course also leaving. Currently they have no one to take either positions but we are working on it. I know it can be hard to get these postions filled. And that many times husband/wife teams take duel postions. But it can also be really hard on a unit if both move.

 

 

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I have to aggree to not letting a CC be married to a CM/SM. Not a rule, but good avdice. Short term it may be OK, but long-term it is not.

 

You'll probably lose both of them at the same time when their son transitions out.

 

In addition, the CC and SM/CM also give a very wrong impressions of their duties when they are married to each other. Things get done behind the scenes, and when their replacements come in, they don't understand how much planning has to be done or what they are even responsible for.

 

Also, if one of them tries to do something that is wrong, can you expect the other to step in?

 

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SpongeBob - You should not just assume that no one will be interested because they don't want to go to Day Camp!

 

For many Cub families (especially the Tigers) this is their FIRST experience with any type of camping. Many have no equipment, no idea of what they need, and no inclination to go out and buy expensive stuff if it turns out they don't like camping.

 

As I stated, give your families incentive to attend. Keep it easy, fun & affordable. Keep it to a 1-nighter. Find a place that has cabins or an indoor space you can sleep in, and room outside for those that want to tent. Make sure your camp is close enough so that families can EASILY come out for the DAY ONLY. Plan your program to include the Day Trippers & all sibs. Advertise the heck out of it. Push the cabin & day trip aspect.

 

If you can at least get them there for the day they can get an idea of what the area is like. They can see the facilities, see how well you run the program, see how much fun their son is having, & see how much fun their whole family can have. Then you might get them out the next time to spend the night.

 

You took BALOO training to get your ENTIRE Pack out camping. The training you received gave you the tools to do just that.

 

 

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For some reason, that den doesn't go anywhere. Not as a den and not with the pack. The parents see that den as a babysitting service, and is the only den that is like that. I always invite them.

 

I just don't anticipate the parents wanting to go and actually purchase stuff and go somewhere, and then have to set their gear up.

 

I think that if we camped, we need to go it when we know it won't get too cold, and when I can pass my BALOO knowledge on to them.

 

I "trained" the Wolf parents before we camped in tents at Resident Camp. They thought I was a bit nuts when I told them to keep smellables (even toothpaste) outside of the tents in coolers or totes with rocks on them. The first night of resident camp, they just did it to make me happy. The following morning, we found racoon footprints all over the totes. Some other people from another pack had to deal with a racoon scratching on their tents all night. After that night, I never had to say another word about keeping smeallables out of the tents.

 

I stressed to the parents that they bring sweat pants and shirts to sleep in August. Most listened, but those who didn't reluctantly admitted to me that they didn't listen and froze all night.

 

I'd rather have a parent and boy come ill-equipped in the summer than in the fall, winter, or spring. Cheap tents and bags are usually appropriate for short-term summer use (I have them bring an extra blanket as well), so I don't have to ask parents to invest in the expensive items.

 

Maybe once the CC is gone, maybe I can gain the support of the new CC, even if I become the new CC, and we can go camping legally!

 

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"I just don't anticipate the parents wanting to go and actually purchase stuff and go somewhere, and then have to set their gear up."

 

This is why you don't have them do that! Find cabins or lodges. Our Council camp has a lodge we can rent out. It is one big room, but has curtains that can be pulled across to create separate areas. We also have a few county Youth Group Camping areas that have cabins available. If you can't find any Youth Camping with lodges or cabins, then contact your local Troops to see if they would be able to loan the Pack some camping equipment. They might also be willing to loan some older Boy Scouts to help with the equipment & your program! The non-camping families don't have to purchase anything & the camping families can bring their tents to set up.

 

BTW - You don't need the CC's permission to offer a family camping trip to the Pack.

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So what's the protocol for an adult leader who is an Eagle Scout, been ASM, SM, UC and then becomes a Webelos Den Leader. He's been to Fast Start, YPT, IOLS, Scoutmaster Fundamentals, Woodbadge, but hasn't been to BALOO? Obviously, the other courses are more in depth than BALOO, so now what? This guy isn't BALOO trained, but has everything else that "supercedes" BALOO.

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Actually as a Webelos leader should attend Webelos Leader Outdoor and not BALOO. It is similar, but goes into activity badges and the difference between webelos and cub scout camping.

The BALOO course goes into how to take your pack camping safely.

Where to go, what to do,what you can't do, equipment, cooking, first aid, planning a campfire etc etc.. Yes, You probably know all this stuff, so I would ask my district/council training chair. Maybe they will let you CLEP out and get AP credit

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"This guy isn't BALOO trained, but has everything else that "supercedes" BALOO."

 

There is no such thing as one training that "supercedes" another.

 

"Fast Start, YPT, IOLS, Scoutmaster Fundamentals, Woodbadge" all focus on different things. BALOO's focus is different from all of those.

 

If you want to take your PACK on overnights then you need to take the training that focuses on THAT. It does not matter if you are already a master mountain climber, OPIK instructor, or SE. BALOO training is required by BSA.

 

If all you want to do is take your Webelos den camping, for some strange reason BSA has decided that, while it recommends that the leader in charge SHOULD have Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Leaders, it is not MANDATORY. It is also not mandatory to have BALOO training for a Webelos den campout. Go figure! Hopefully this will get corrected by National at some point.

 

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Yah, to answer the original question...

 

Yeh do what makes sense, and is in the best interest of the boys.

 

One-shot BALOO trainin' doesn't make someone the be-all and end-all of a trip. Most of da BALOO issues involve proper planning and location, eh? Presumably in these cases the BALOO trained person did all that.

 

Emergencies happen. When they happen, you do your best. Most of the time, you keep the campout goin'. But sometimes, the BALOO person really is a necessary ingredient for comfort and safety. Use your judgment, do what's best.

 

To correct an ongoin' fallacy, Volunteer immunity from liability, and BSA Insurance coverage does NOT depend on strict adherence to G2SS. Anybody who's tellin' you that isn't bein' Trustworthy. Insurance and immunity are for tough situations and for mistakes. The only areas of G2SS that may affect coverage are exclusions on the master policy (like skydivin', eh? :) ).

 

And there's nothin' wrong with families choosing to run an event privately even if it's been officially canceled. The communication should be clear, and people should understand what they're doin', fer sure. But all of us incur that kind of ordinary liability every day, when we drive the soccer carpool, have our son's friends over for a sleepover, or let the neighbor's kid play on our swingset. It's really not a big deal to be fear-mongerin' over.

 

 

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Our solution to this was first we sought out BALOO training only to find it in high demand but rarely offerred. On top of that, our District at the time didn't have a training chair or committee (long story that one!). So our Cubmaster and two other adults found training in another area and we then volunteered to be the District training crew. For the Pack, we insisted on two BALOO trained adults minimum for each campout and because we were the training staff had the phone numbers of other trained adults we could call on in our District.

 

Personally, I would insist your Training Chair schedule BALOO yearly and follow up with the Dist Chair and even OA Advisor. If there is push back such as "We can't get enough interest" then offer to help promote it. Suggest the TC use Cub Breakouts at Roundtable to promote the course. Just my $0.02.

 

L

 

 

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THANK YOU LOKI. This is what it is about. You couldn't find training in your area, so you went somewhere else and got your training. Then you came back and started training adults in your area. This attitude give the boys a much better program.

 

As a ADC I would love to have you in my district.

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We currently have 4-5 Baloo trained leaders, but most of us leave next year. Baloo is offered once a year in our council at the local Girl Scout camp (2 miles from Boy Scout Camp[other side of the mountain], which is always booked). Most of us leave next year and we have not been able to get new parents/leaders Baloo trained for past 2 years. we hope some will get trained next Dec.

 

Our pack has been camping since it started 7 years ago. we justed started having 2 campouts a year. The Fall campout in Oct. we have open to all but the Tigers, they can stay until dinner. We do not want the Tigers to have just signed up 2 weeks earlier and know nothing to camp in the cold damp air and quit immediately, but can attend the day's events. We coordinate it with the Cub Fall fun day - no activities need to be planned other than dinner, skits, and campfire. Our June campout on Father's Day is for all, but still is rather cold in the morning. We usually offer Whittle-n-Chip, hiking, fishing, and free game time (toss around a ball, frisbee, look for lizards, toads, etc.) We often get 20-30 boys camping out of 55-70 members. Even have one Cub restricted to a walker or wheelchair due to CP camping and loving it.

 

Our pack requires at least 2 Baloo trained people, and general health forms for everyone attending. Some camps by us are checking for health forms per person and the required number of trained adults or you can not even check-in.

 

Most of the experienced leaders are now on their youngest, or last son in cub scouts. We are trying to stress on the newer parents for help, but little help so far. Our Cub Master moves on next month and we are still trying to get a replacement. It is hard to stress enough to the parents that we are all volunteers and do this for the kids. We may have resort to "if these postitions are not filled by you or x # trained for this, we can not have XX event" or "if these vital positions are not filled we will have to dissolve".

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"We currently have 4-5 Baloo trained leaders, but most of us leave next year.....Our pack requires at least 2 Baloo trained people,..."

Since your leadership succession is uncertain, I recommend you lighten your requirement to 1 Baloo trained person if your Pack wants to continue camping.  National requires only 1 person. 

 

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I used to do all the council training for Webelos Outdoor. However, once they dropped the mandatory to it and allowed Webelos leaders to take their boys out into the woods without sufficient training, I jumped ship. It never ceased to amaze me that Webelos leadership would show up for the outdoor training with a new tent and receipt from the local department store they stopped at on the way out to training. They had no idea how to set it up. BUT, they came and they learned, and they watched others and they had a good time. They learned to cook on a fire (after starting it of course) and all kinds of skills necessary to insure the boys going out with a person who has done this stuff at least ONCE BEFORE!

 

I am Cub trained, Webelos and Webelos Outdoor trained, SM Fundamentals trained, Venturer trained, and Woodbadge trained. I hold a PhD in University of Scouting and still I could use more training. The boys always have something new up their sleeves and getting the heads up before hand is important.

 

There is no such thing as over-trained, but there surely is such a thing as under-trained.

 

Without trained adults, there should be no program, because the quality of program thrown together by untrained people is not doing a service to the boys.

 

 

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...."However, once they dropped the mandatory to it and allowed Webelos leaders to take their boys out into the woods without sufficient training, I jumped ship....."

 

I agree. It does not make any sense.

 

 

"...Without trained adults, there should be no program, because the quality of program thrown together by untrained people is not doing a service to the boys...."

 

I do not agree. The quality of the program REALLY depends on the commitment and enthusiasm of the leader. Basic training is important and should be taken, but you cannot shut down a program because an adult was unable to attend a training course that's only given twice a year.

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