MAX age for Arrow of Light?

[greenSM 10]

Situation: a fifth grade Webelo quite our pack last spring. He had already met the minimum requirements for Webelo but, not for AOL. Now, in October, with her son in sixth grade and almost 12, the mother wants the pack (which has moved to a new district and a new CO) to work with her son to get his AOL. Despite telling her that he doesn't need an AOL to join Boy Scouts, she insists that he get it. The CC hates confrontation and is considering doing this.

The committee is not opposed to doing this (if he pays his recharter) but, we feel there is a time for a Scout that age to simply move on to Boy Scouts. We, however, can only find guidelines for the minimum age and grade requirements. Any suggestions?

[mtm25653 10]

If he is in 6th grade, it's too late - just like a 2nd grader can't earn his Tiger, or a 3rd grader can't earn his Wolf, or a 4th grader can't earn his Bear.

 

If he was still in 5th grade, just older than his classmates, he could get it (I had a special needs boy who was 12 in 4th grade when he started cub scouts - he earned his Webelos and AOL and is on track to get his Eagle, though he will likely need some medical exemptions/extension.)

[ManassasEagle 10]

Looks like item #1 of the Cub Scout Joining Requirements disqualifies him...

 

"Cub Scout Joining Requirements

A boy must...

 

1. Complete the first grade, or be 8 years old, but be younger that 11 years old.

 

2. Have the written consent of his parents or guardian.

 

3. Register with the council and pay the national registration fee.

 

4. With his parent or guardian, complete the Cub Scout application. He must sign the pledge that shows he has read the Cub Scout Promise and Law of the Pack, and promises to try to live up to them. He also must promise to do his best to be a good Cub Scout. The parent signs an agreement to help with advancement and activities."

[Jeffrey H 25]

I concur with the others. If he is already eleven and sixth grade, he has aged out and it's time for him to move on to Boy Scouts. There are consequences when we "quit" something and this will be a good lesson for him. Boy Scouts are more fun anyway and they will have more age appropriate activities for him.

 

 

[LongHaul 10]

Per the Webelos Leader Handbook, what the rule actually says is that a boy can stay in Cub Scouts, therefore be eligible for advancement, for 6 months after his 11th birthday OR until he completes the 5th grade which ever is later.

So, what the issue becomes is whether this boy is still a registered Cub Scout. When did his registration lapse if indeed it has lapsed? He can not re-register as a Cub Scout at this point so basically it comes down to when does the Pack Charter , under which this boy last registered, end. From there we must apply the 6 month rule.

LongHaul

(This message has been edited by LongHaul)

[fgoodwin 23]

AOL is by definition a Cub Scout badge.

 

The AOL requirements don't state a maximum age. But there IS a maximum age to be a Cub Scout. If he's already completed fifth grade or if he's older than 11-1/2, then he's no longer eligible to be a Cub Scout and he's thus ineligible for the AOL.

 

One wonders where was mom's enthusiasm for the AOL last spring?

[EagleInKY 14]

It's already been well documented. This is against the rules. Explain the parents that life can go on, the world doesn't hinge around him earning his AOL. Encourage him to start Boy Scouts and take on the new adventures.

[Gonzo1 10]

I agree with the others, if he earned it, but had not received it, that's one thing. If he did not earn it and is now too old, that's life.

 

It may be time for him to learn the lesson about quitting, and then not getting the award (AOL) or reward in other aspects of life.

 

Gonzo1

[fgoodwin 23]

Its a tough lesson to learn that we can't always get what we want.

 

But the boy (and his mom) should remember that it was within their own power to complete the AOL requirements on time. Its a painful lesson, but hopefully one they will remember if the boy gets to be 17 and hasn't completed the requirements for Eagle.

 

Hopefully he won't wait until he turns 18 to realize its too late.

[theysawyoucomin' 10]

SORRRRRRRYYYYYYY MOMMMMMMMYYYYY!!!!!!!!!

 

I just love the parents like this.

Warn the Scoutmaster she will INSIST he become an EAGLE after his first semester in college and fit everything in when he is 3 days shy of his 18th b-day.

 

what participation requirement?

[eagle-pete 11]

This falls under the category of "What is best for the adult(s) vs. What is best for the boy".

 

It never ceases to amaze me how both parents and leaders can mix this principle up in so many ways.

 

The main issue here, and the main question, is we doing what is best for the boy? Years ago I had a parent with a similar problem. As the Cubmaster, I was obligated (yes, that's right - obligated) to refuse the parent the "favor" of granting the Arrow of Light to their son who did not earn it. In this case it was the father. He actually asked if I could let the rules slide so his son could get this award. He knew the rules, but he was asking that I just put them aside for his son.

 

The Arrow of Light is a big deal for a boy. It should be presented with a ceremony which is in proportion to the significance of the award. A boy should remember this for many years and will wear the award all through Boy Scouts. But it is more than just the ceremony and all the time and effort he put into it. It is a pattern he will follow for the rest of the time he is in Scouting: learn the requirements, do the work, earn the reward. The concepts and principles of earning the award will follow him into Boy Scouts, to Eagle and beyond. The tragedy is when we as leaders or parents fail the boy in teaching him this principle.

 

As I told the father of the boy who had not earned his Arrow of Light, don't rob the boy of the experience of earning the award. Let him learn for himself what it means to earn something. That experience will be much more valuable than the patch he wears. When we put a patch on a boy's shirt that was earned and worked for, he is reminded every time he puts on his uniform what that meant. Isnt that why we have these awards anyway?

 

Scouting is all about the boy not our own selfish interests. It is about service to the boys, not about using it as a social status to show off our Eagle Scout, at the expense of a boys life experience.

 

Eagle Pete

[SanDiegoScouting 10]

Who is correct Longhaul or fgoodwin?

Loghaul, writes which ever comes later age 11 1\2 or completion of 5th grade

or

fgoodwin, If one or the other has already occurred!

 

New Question or Same Question with added twist: My son is 11 years 8 months currently in 5th grade has earned the Arrow of light. With the Cub Pack near where he lives with his mother, that he has been attending continuously for 3 years and has now started his 4th year.

This last Summer I simultaneously started him in Boy Scouts with a troop just over an hour away, closer to where I live. With a Boy Scout Troop where my friend, that I was a Scout with has his son involved in. Are two sons have long been friends. My son did earn the starting rank of Scout before he completed the requirements for Arrow of light at the Pack an hour north. My boy has been watching the pomp and circumstance of the Blue and Gold dinner for years and has always looked forward to his turn to cross over on the the little bridge they lash together.

To me it's a great little ceremony but not as great has the Grand Canyon, Sierras and Summer Camp at Emerald Bay, Catalina Island that he did get to attend. However the boy still is in the 5th grade and has been to so many little events over the years with the other Den Members right from his classroom that he just always counted on getting his Arrow of Light with them. By the time the formal crossover ceremony occurs my son will likely have already earned Second class maybe even his First Class at the Troop an hour South. Is this boy who attends Webelos where his mother lives and Scouts where his Father lives still eligible to be awarded the Arrow of Light?

[ScoutNut 147]

Per the BSA Cub Scout Leader Book, the rule is you may register as a Cub Scout until you are 11.5, or have finished 5th grade - whichever comes LATER.

 

What ever possessed you to register your son as BOTH a Cub Scout AND a Boy Scout? He can not be both at the same time.

 

Since you decided to register him as a Boy Scout BEFORE he earned his AOL, and he is earning Boy Scout ranks, he is no longer a Cub Scout, and is NO LONGER eligible to earn AOL.

 

Good Lord. What a shame. I am sure that the Pack could award him the AOL, even though he was no longer eligible, but personally, I would be worried that it might have an impact on his dates of Boy Scout rank when/if he decides to apply for his Eagle Rank. Unless they gave him the award, but did not record it with council via an Advancement report.

 

However, a Scout is, or should be, Trustworthy, and Obedient.

 

[clemlaw 55]

6 months after his 11th birthday OR until he completes the 5th grade which ever is later.

 

I have the perfect solution, which will put the ball back into her court. Tell her you'll be able to help her out. She just needs a letter from her son's school, on school letterhead, stating that the son didn't complete fifth grade. If she talks the principal into retroactively flunking her son, then IMHO, the son is entitled to AOL.

[ChaiAdventure 25]

I would be curious to see from the original poster what the outcome was......