Webelos to Scouts

[suzdvm 10]

THANKS AGAIN!!

But your help has raised more questions.

 

The boys will be "held" as Webelos until the "appropriate" time. They did the work, they wanted more!!!! They have earned most of the belt loops and some of the pins.

"Have them keep working on them and beltloops & pins. "

Comments and questions below:

 

"This error cannot be put in the council's lap. You and the pack advancement chair are the ones responsible for signing off on their requirements before they actually completed the requirements. "

 

They did complete all the requirements, except the time thing. I was reading the Boy Scout book and using a computer program to keep track of the advancements. COMPLETLEY missed the 6 month clause in the Webelo book , until stated here. went and borrowed a book. THe council cancelled our troop and pack charters after they cashed the checks. Erased everyone from their records and cancelled the Boy's Life subscriptions. It took four months to find this out and get it corrected. Their secretary retired suddenly due to poor health and they did not go through all of her filing to see that we were Ok. So it was a real mess for awhile, which probably did not help me or them.

 

There is no advancement chair here. We have a troop and a pack 22 boys altogether. We have a tiger leader, a wolf leader, a webelos leader (me) and I double as ASM (the SM said he was too busy to do any more and someone else needed to take over, two years ago) the CM has been in and out of the hospital for four years (also my husband, so when he has to go to hospital or dr < five ruptured discs in lower back> four hours away, I have to drive him - lots of time spent on the road) Our charter reps do not want to "get involved" in council politics (we just lost our district and are a rural service area) Everyone that is involved helps as best they can with everything they can.

 

"Have they earned all the Webelos badges? " yes

 

""Have them work with the new Webelos on requirements. " there are none - there are no other boys to recruit VERY SMALL TOWN- don't blink, you'll miss us

"Spend time checking out lots of troops, even if the boys think they know where they are going." There is only one troop in the area, they would have to drive one hour one way to join another troop.

" learn more about cooking outside. " we have been under a burn ban for over a year now.

 

"Boy Scouts, especially when the ages in the troop can range to 18 years" we have 7 boys in the troop, ( one 7th grader, 4 - 8th, 1 - 9th, 1- 10 th) they have been the ones helping and teaching the webelos during their meetings

 

 

"requirements that are not easy to meet" these boys are mostly overachievers (makes it hard on the adults)

Have these boys function as much as possible as a patrol (name, patch on shirt sleeve, etc). " ordered their patches last summer, still waiting for council to get them in, have flag, shout, song, etc

 

2) This summer, go to at least one overnight summer camp session just for Webelos (in my corner of the world, you could chose from sessions at several BSA camps, ranging from rustic to posh).

- there is one in our council three hours away, no other parent wants to go (2 deep) I will NOT take some of the other children without their parent because of discipline problems, and do not feel right saying I would take some and not the problem child. The next nearest camp is over 400 miles away. My child has gone for four years and is bored to tears because it is the same every year.

 

3) Get your BALOO training and go camping, just the patrol, once month as long as the weather permits. by the way you need Webelos Leader Outdoor Training to take them camping - I have requested training for two years now. The council has scheduled all the training over 400 miles away on Saturday mornings at 8 am or early evenings. I work seven days a week but could take off if I did not have to drive eight hours one way. (three years ago they had a training here. husband CM went after we got special permission for him to have someone (oldest son who knew how to help) go with him to help him get around. but because of another burn ban, they could not do the outdoor taining. I was unable to attend because it left the youngest alone, no babysitters in this town on a weekend) AND I would need another adult to go. I am surprised at the parents that think Scouts is a babysitter.

 

4) Ask your Cubmaster to incorporate these boys in leadership roles at the pack meetings. These boys already run the pack meetings because the CM has a hard time getting around at the meetings. The boy scouts have "retired" and sit back and enjoy !

 

5) Participate as a patrol in as many camporees, klondike derbies, etc. as you can. Remember, you aren't limited to the ones in your District or Council. see above,

 

6) Definitely visit as many troops as possible and choose one that will let them join as a new patrol, hopefully keeping their patrol name.

only one troop and because of size, troop and pack do a lot together already

 

7) Start planning now for the ultimate crossover ceremony next February (complete with flaming arrows! or not!) that people will be talking about for the next ten years. "

everything has to be under one hour here or the parents walk out during the middle of it. (including derby)

 

 

"have they done any campouts or hikes" when I can get another adult to go with, we go. we go with another pack from 60 miles away because noone here has the training required. makes it hard to cooridinate and get there.

 

SUMMARY:

 

 

1) I need traing (the troop and pack adults all need), but have found it inaccesable to me due to time, travel, money constraints coupled with lack of understanding on council's part. We have a trained trainer 60 miles away willing to do training in this area, but council refuses to allow him to do it (just about refused to accept the merit badges he got councilors for, which included trained professionals approved by the council- go figure)

 

2) I need to learn to read lol

All leaders need a copy of each level. (will work on that)

 

3) MORE TIME to get ready for the little overachievers, we have built lamps, telegraph machines, studied ham radio ( one will be testing this summer), made "art" to hang at the library, done research for teachers, EMS, and self, organized teams for sports not included at school (all but basketball), cleaned the park, cleaned the fairgrounds, etc etc. It's hard to keep one step ahead of them.

 

4) I need to call upon the collective wisdom of this forum more often now that I have figured out how to get in.

 

 

THANK you again.

 

 

 

[sctmom 11]

Cooking outside does not require a fire, use a campstove.

 

RE: new webelos --- don't you have some up and coming Webelos?

 

As someone else mentioned, you could have them work on SOME of the Boy Scout requirements so they are ready when they do crossover. Actually, most boys who have their Arrow of Light have done a lot of the Tenderfoot requirements.

 

You don't have to camp at a BSA camp. What about backyard camping?

 

Ask they boys what they want to do during the fall at meetings.

 

[ScoutNut 147]

WOW SUZDVM -

 

I sounds like what you really have is a combined Pack/Troop with little help and less training. With only 15 Cubs and 7 Boy Scouts you do not have much diversity. Are you the ONLY adult who works with the Boy Scouts? What does your Troop do except help run your Pack? Does your Troop get out camping any more often then your Pack? You need to have a BIG time parent meeting and explain to them that in order for you to give their children a quality program you need HELP and COOPERATION!

 

It seems like time and distances are a real problem for you. But, I think that in order for you to get a better idea of how other Packs and Troops are run, and to give your boys more experiences, you need to contact the Pack that is 60 miles away from you. See if you can attend more events with this Pack. Maybe even some Pack meetings. What is their local Troop like? Maybe you can get your BS and Webelos together with them. Even if you do have to travel 1 hour away to visit another Troop I think it would be worth it to both you and your boys.

 

BTW, SCTMOM is quite correct. A burn ban should NOT stop you from camping! It gives you the perfect chance to put into practice BSA's "Leave No Trace" principals. Use a campstove for cooking. If the night is very clear, and the moon is close to full, you do not need a fire. Your eyes will quickly adjust to darkness. Perfect time to work on Constellations and Astronomy! Go to bed early and get up early!

 

Nut

[Mike Long 10]

A burn ban IS a big deal.

 

There have been burn bans in effect here in Florida off and on since the '98 firestorm. At its highest level all heat sources are outlawed. This includes campstoves, contained grills, lanterns ect. cold camping only.

 

No it doesn't mean you can't camp. We still do. It just means you have to reconsider your techniques.

 

Contrary to popular misconception LNT doesn't mean no fires it means to carefully consider how and where you do have a fire and to consider if you should have one. You should be using LNT at EVERY camp, period.

 

www.lnt.org

[sctmom 11]

Suzdvm,

How is small is your small town? How many kids are in the local schools?

Sounds like you have a lot more problems than just what to do with these kids who want to be Boy Scouts.

 

[CubsRgr8 10]

You certainly have your work cut out for you, suzdvm. I realize now that some of my suggestions presumed that you were located in an area of the country more densely populated with Scouts. I forget that there are large parts of America that are truly wide, open spaces. Anyway, here are some additional comments.

 

Patrol ID - If your boys chose a standard patrol patch, I will gladly pick up six patches at the local scout store and mail them to you. Send me a private message with your mailing address and they'll be off in the mail tomorrow.

 

Overnight Webelos Summer Camp - I still say GO! Pick the session that works for you, your son and a friend and GO! If other kids want to go, great! Let them know what the required boy/parent ratio is and let THEIR parents figure it out. Regarding two-deep leadership, well, I say announce that transportation to and from camp is not a unit function. Any arrangements made are thereby personal. Once you're at summer camp, there's plenty of leadership to go around.

 

Crossover - Instead of February, crossover in in December - the soonest you could do it, adding six months to the end of 4th grade. And still include those flaming arrows!

 

Wish I had some ideas about your training conundrum, but I'm at a loss. All in all, it sounds like your Webelos are lucky to have you as a leader. Keep with it!(This message has been edited by CubsRgr8)

[LauraT7 13]

I agree with

 

"A situation like this just screams for a Den Chief to work with these boys."

 

and Bob's

 

"continue to work with them in a Webelos two program until the appropriate time to advance. OR make sure they go to a troop that uses the NEW SCOUT PATROL method religiously with these boys. If you mainstream them into a regular patrol they will not last a year."

 

From experience, we had a Webelos leader in our pack, who has a son ("joe")who is Gifted, extrememly high IQ, about 6mos older than his classmates, and has alot of experience, knowledge and support from his "high acheiver" parents. he is the same grade as my Jon, and they are in the gifted program at school together, but "joe" is 11 mos older. She pushed like crazy to get her whole den through to AOL in a little over one year, because she wanted joe in scouts. of her 8 Webelos, 7 got their AOL, All 7 joined either our troop or another local one in summer 2000 - "joe" had just finished 4th grade & turned 11 that summer. My son and his denmates joined the troop 10 mos later at the end of 5th grade - in March 2001 - and by that time, EVERY ONE Of Joe's webelos den had dropped out. Except Joe.

 

Now i have to say that joe is an exceptionally mature kid for his age - and the additional year in scouts really shows, especially next to my son, who, though gifted, too, is also ADD.

 

Joe's parents are still very involved in scouts - both of them - She's troop treasurer, and he's committee and drives the bus - Joe is now a patrol leader. He has earned his first class, and will probably be the youngest Eagle, ever.

 

But -he has alot of trouble with the "social maturity" of his place in the troop. he has trouble fitting in with the boys - he bosses the ones from his own peer group, and they resent it, and he tries to be a part of the older ones, and they feel he doesn't fit with them, either.

 

Whether this works out for him or not - the other sad thing is that it cost us 7 boys who had been together in scouts since 1st grade.

________________

BSA loses too many boys at the webelos to scout transition - we don't need to make it worse.

 

And I'm not going to be popular for saying this; but I have a hard time believing that they REALLY know or understand all 20 pins, and AOL, etc in just one year. A few boys can do it, but a whole group together? Either someone handheld those boys all the way through, or cut some corners, or something. And that's going to make it even harder for them to transition to scouts - ADULTS don't plan and execute the program in scouts, the BOYS do. And 4th grade webelos who have been pushed through 20 months of work in 9 are not equipped to plan for themselves - they've been shuffled through the motions by the adults.

 

I would think they could legitamately move up in Nov or Dec- and I'd aim for that - get a Den cheif to work with them and teach them to start thinking for themselves. teach them the 'patrol method', have THEM plan stuff, and let them fail - that's the stuff campfire stories are made from. see if you could work them into a troop that would make them a 'new scout patrol' when they crossed over - keep the boys together until they become acclimatized.

 

Good luck!

 

ps - sorry if i offended anybody - and if this is too long - it just really is important to me to not loose boys this way.

 

laura

 

 

 

[suzdvm 10]

More good info!!

 

Burn Ban; we were down to no flame outside-grills, branding fires, etc. We did get .2 rain during the end of last week!!! (the first in 12 months) so we can have grills now. The bad part was we could , but were frowned upon, driving over pasture or off of paved or clechy roads.

 

Parents: most parents here see Scouts, 4-H, school, church, and any other youth org as a free babysitter were their children may do as they please free of discipline. When my children got involved in scouts, the leaders were very lax with discipline. We took our kids to council camps and involved in roundtables (now called leaders meetings). The older leaders retired- walked away saying the kids wouldn't do anything for them. The scouts were up for charter renewal, the district gut came to us and said please, so here we are.

BUT we now have three other parents that are will to help!!!

 

School: the K-12 has just about 350 students enrolled, just over half are girls. leaves about 120 boys. about half the paretns say (and this is a quote from one)-if they had to ANYTHING including driving or suppling anything their kid would not be involved- leaves about 60 total in the school that we pull from. AND we have built up from one den of six in the CUBS and five in the Troop.

 

CAMPS: our council just cancelled out cub scout camp and webelo camp has been moved to the other side of the state. two parents contacted me this morning- we will be family camping this month come heck or rain (we will take the rain:) ).

 

Our troop does more camping - The troop from 60 miles away asks us to every camp they have. (Great leader!!!!! He is the shining example of what I see scouts should be) But only one or two boys ever show up from our troop. Parents again .

this leader had JLT training set up for his boys, asked ours. AND WOW! ours: one already had jlt, but came to help, two more came for the training. best turn out we've had except for summer camp when we hauled them over there and stayed with them the week.

 

THANKS again for all the information and help.

 

I am going to go back to nagging council to get training set up for our half of the state!!

I'll even promise to drag people there myself just to get it.

Suz