Jeffrey H 25 Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 A few months ago, my Pack recently took under our wings another neighborhood Pack who does not have a Cubmaster and has yet to find a replacement. This is not a merger. For an interim period, Our CM agreed to take them in order to keep them going and help them re-charter. They are a very small Pack of 7 boys so it was not a great burden to take them in. They are currently meeting with us for Pack meetings. The tough question: How do we get this Pack self-sufficient again? Basically, they need a Cubmaster and need one soon. Their future is not promising for the long-term - they have no Tigers, no Wolves, 2 Bears, and 5 Webelos. Their 2 Bears have no den leader and they are currently attending my den. Their Webelos, however, are active and have a strong den leader. They have a Committee Chair, but he does not seem to have much initiative to find a solution to the problem. We discussed with our district the possibility of merging their Pack into ours, but our DE and District Chair do no want that to happen (#s of units are important to them). Link to post Share on other sites
msnowman 10 Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 The way you put it, it sounds like the Packs have merged in everything except paper and unit number. Our very small Pack was in a similar position, except that it was one of folding or not. We had 4 Tigers, 2 Wolves and 2 Bears. No Webelos, the Tiger leader had vanished, I was CM and I was getting done and going to just lead the mixed Wolf/Bear den. We gave the parents the hard talk - step up or the program for your sons will fold. None of the registered leaders even had boys in the Pack. The CC took CM, a former Committee Member (whose youngest aged out of the Troop as Eagle) agreed to be CC and the former Webelos Leader agreed to come back and take the Tigers. Well, we picked up 1 more Wolf but still no parents registered beyond Committee Member. Fast forward to April. The final word to the parents was this - If you don't step up there will be no Pack. The Tiger leader only took this on as an interim solution so we didn't lose all 4 boys, I'm going to lead the Webelos, so the (new) Bears will need a leader. The (new) Wolves will also need a leader, we need a CC and any new Tigers will need to come up w/ a leader also. Well, we got 3 new leaders out of the parents. We have also registered a new boy and have one who has visited us for a couple events (he wants to be a Scout, parents aren't sure). I guess the moral of my story is not to write them off just because they are small. Our Pack is making a comeback like never before. However - ALL of the parents of ALL of the boys in the Pack have to be willing to do their part. IF the parents aren't interested enough to step up there is no way the Pack will stand on its own two (twenty-two?) feet. Regardless of what the DE/District Chair want, if there isn't anybody to recharter there isn't anybody to recharter. Good luck and I hope things work out well. YiS Michelle Link to post Share on other sites
EagleInKY 14 Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 You've merged, you just haven't realized it yet. By taking them under your wing, you essentially disengaged the existing parents from any reason to step up and save the pack. The only way this pack will survive is if the CO steps up and says that they want to keep a pack, and then follows through with recruiting new Cubs and leaders. If that doesn't happen, well, what's done is done. Best of luck to you. Link to post Share on other sites
Jeffrey H 25 Posted June 16, 2006 Author Share Posted June 16, 2006 Yes, we are merged, just not officially on paper. The district executive likes it that way, but pretty stupid in my opinion. IMO, we need to be one Pack with one unit number and I would invite all of them to transfer to our Pack and be done with it. The only reason the DE is giving them "time" is because they are approaching their 25th year anniversary of existence. Well, I guess they will be able get that little "25 year" patch on their uniforms. Our CM is currently working with their Pack's parents to give them an opportunity to step up and save their Pack. However, he can only do this for so long. If no one steps up to CM, my prediction is (within the next year)they will eventually fold or more likely, their active boys will elect to transfer to our Pack. Link to post Share on other sites
OldGreyEagle 5 Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 I would establish a date in the future, say the packs recharter date where they either come up with a cubmaster or the members tranfer to your Pack. Set that as the expectation with the packs family and your disitrict and move forward. Link to post Share on other sites
scoutldr 732 Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 A pack cannot recharter without a CM (at least on paper). I would never agree to be a "paper CM". I agree...as long as you prop this pack up, the parents will not get motivated. This is the District's problem, not yours. The DE and DC need to be working overtime to get this pack back on its feet. DEs will (or should, if they want to keep their job) do almost anything to keep a unit from merging or folding.(This message has been edited by scoutldr) Link to post Share on other sites
Fuzzy Bear 12 Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 JH, The D.E., the D.C. and the parents are all myths when it comes to you taking over their responsibilities. People find true happiness when this occurs because it is just one less hour for them and one more for you. Happy Trails, FB Link to post Share on other sites
SaintCad 10 Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 "We had 4 Tigers, 2 Wolves and 2 Bears." Sounds like 8 parents (at least) that view Cub Scouts as a babysitting service. Where are they during all of this? One of the Bear parents should have enough experience that with help they could take over as CM. Link to post Share on other sites
EagleInKY 14 Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 "The district executive likes it that way" That's because scouting professionals are measured (paid) based upon numbers, both units and scouts. If he loses this unit, he'll have to get another one started somewhere. If he can just get it to hang on through recharter, he'll survive another year. I know it sounds cynical, but it's the thinking behind the trouble several councils have gotten into with inflated numbers. Link to post Share on other sites
msnowman 10 Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Yea St. Cad, you'd think 4 Tigers, 2 Wolves and 2 Bears would equal 8 parents with experience. In reality it yields 3 Tiger parents, (1 pair of twins), 2 Wolf parents - neither w/ any previous experience except his own time as a Cub Scout and 2 Bear adults - 1 which is shared w/ a Tiger sibling and the other a non-parent guardian - neither w/ any previous experience. So no, none were comfortable stepping up from knowing nothing to CM. However, of this same group of adults we now have 2 new den leaders and an ACM and another committee member. Giving them a year to get to know and understand the program served us better than shoving them into roles they had no idea about and potentially losing the whole group. YMMV Michelle Link to post Share on other sites
SaintCad 10 Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 That is a very different scenerio. It sound like you are just trying to get the Pack to survive for one year until the new leaders can take over. What I would do is be CM for one year (and make it very clear that it is 1 year only). Assign the ACM the job of recruiting and gradually turn the responsibilities of the Pack over to the ACM. In the meanwhile, make each parent responsible for one pack meeeting per month with one other meeting per month as a pack with each den leader doing little breakout sessions for their own den's achievements. I would also suggest some pack level activities that can apply to every level such as conservation work, public service, Leave-No-Trace, etc. Link to post Share on other sites
Jeffrey H 25 Posted June 19, 2006 Author Share Posted June 19, 2006 QUOTE: A pack cannot recharter without a CM (at least on paper). I would never agree to be a "paper CM". I agree...as long as you prop this pack up, the parents will not get motivated. This is the District's problem, not yours. The DE and DC need to be working overtime to get this pack back on its feet. DEs will (or should, if they want to keep their job) do almost anything to keep a unit from merging or folding. The reason they are able to re-charter is our CM has agreed to take over as their CM. He is now CM of two Packs. This is not a paper CM scenario. He is actively working with the dying pack to help them get a CM (along with the DE and DC) and at the same time provide an active Scouting environment for their boys so they do not drop out. He is reminding the parents the seriousness of the situation and they will lose their Pack if they do not step up. This situation may not be our problem, but our Pack has a long history of friendly cooperation with their Pack. We are, at a minimum, extending a hand of friendship and help. QUOTE: It sound like you are just trying to get the Pack to survive for one year until the new leaders can take over. Thats about all the time they have. Link to post Share on other sites
Hunt 11 Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 I'd like to vent about this issue a bit. Sure, the district and council folks don't want units to merge, but that's their problem. At the unit level, our problem is doing what's best for the boys. It may make eminently good sense for two small packs to merge together in order to achieve critical mass. It makes no sense to kill yourself trying to resuscitate a tiny pack if the only reason to do so is to help the DE make his numbers. If there are other good reasons, sure. We had the same situation with my son's pack a number of years ago. The CM left, there weren't many boys, and it looked like the pack would fold. The solution was to "meet with" another pack, but keep both packs in existence on paper. In fact, it functioned as a single pack. I will admit that some years later the District got a new pack going in the location of the old dead pack--I don't know if they kept it going on paper all that time. When I hear about units (packs and troops) with 5, 6, 7 boys, I have to suspect that the boys would be better off with fewer, but larger units. Link to post Share on other sites
Jeffrey H 25 Posted June 28, 2006 Author Share Posted June 28, 2006 When I hear about units (packs and troops) with 5, 6, 7 boys, I have to suspect that the boys would be better off with fewer, but larger units. They are better off. The boys from the "dying Pack" are jumping right in to the activities of our Pack. They are ENCOURAGED, making new friends, having fun, and not dropping out. Link to post Share on other sites
standerson 21 Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 I have been through this twice. Once as a Cub myself and again with our son. You have to make a decision on what is best for the boys. I would suggest merging them into your pack. Link to post Share on other sites
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