Belt Loops Being Given Away at Day Camp

[Greg Nelson 10]

OK, I don't want this to come off like a rant against my district's day camp. The folks organizing this have put together a great set of activities for the boys, and they are having a wonderful time so far.

 

BUT.....

 

I have a problem with them awarding belt loops, achievements, and electives like candy.

 

For example, after our boys finished the BB station, they were told that they had qualified for the BB Shooting belt loop. Well, in my mind, not quite yet. One of the 3 requirements is "Explain the rules for Safe BB gun shooting you have learned to your leader or adult partner". At no point did our boys do this.

 

That one was easily dealt with by going around to the boys individually at dinner time and having them go through what they learned. Some had them down, some had forgotten almost everything and needed more learning, which is the whole point of that requirement. So I now feel OK giving the boys their loop.

 

BUT.....

 

At another station, the boys played a game of flag football. Good fun for all concerned. Before the game, they were told that they would earn the Flag Football belt loop by playing in the game. Huh??? Where is the "Explain or discuss the simple rules of flag football with your den", and, more importantly, "Practice running, passing, and catching skills for at least 30 minutes". I can take care of leading a discussion about flag football rules, but the boys are on their own for the 30 minutes of practice.

 

Here's the deal - as my Pack's advancement chair, I am unwilling to award belt loops when I KNOW that the requirements haven't been met. In the case of the Flag Football loop, I e-mailed the parents that the boys could receive the loop after practicing football skills for 30 minutes at home and letting me know that they have done so.

 

SO...

 

Am I handling this correctly? I'm sure to have a boy or two (as well as his parents) getting worked up about this, since someone in authority told them that they had completed the work for the loop, even though they had not.

 

[Lisabob 13]

Our day camp has done this in the past too and what's worse, they handed every boy a page with various tiger/wolf/bear/webelos rank requirements that had been "completed" at camp - some actually had but many had not.

 

I recommend you contact the daycamp directors and gently explain the problem to them. They may think they're helping you by doing what they've done. I know that was the case for us - but when I explained how/why the boys had actually not met the requirements they did actually change things.

 

If you do this, it helps to have an alternative plan in mind to suggest. In our case, we ended up with a simple check sheet for each pack of things that MIGHT be covered at camp, with the emphasis on MIGHT . Each station leader at camp could then check off the things that had actually been accomplished. So for flag football, for example, the adult running the activity could check that they had played the game and maybe that they'd explained the rules, but leave the "practice for 30 min." requirement blank.

 

Good luck!

 

Lisa'bob

[funscout 11]

Our District has also awarded BB and Archery belt loops after participating in Day Camp. I don't have a problem with that, since it is the only way a Cub can earn those. Some of my Cubs did both activities with their parents, but since it wasn't at a BSA sponsored event, they couldn't get the belt loop. Now, that doesn't make sense.

 

Personally, I don't feel the need to have every single boy recite the safety rules, when I see him following them every single time without being reminded. For the boys who DO need reminders, then, yes, those boys should be asked often, to tell what the rules are. One boy who has ADHD and forgot his meds. one day (not mine, this time!) could TELL you all the safety rules, but could not follow them without an adult (lucky me!) right next to him at all times. When he was on his meds. he did just fine.

 

In our case, the Pack Member in charge of signing up the Pack at Day Camp, is the one who gets the information on what each den earned that week. That person has been ME for the last several years, and I attend all 5 days so I know what was worked on and what wasn't. We also have attendance records, so if a kid missed a day when an achievement was worked on, he doesn't get that achievement. After I have had a chance to look over the records for each den, I pass the information on to the Den Leaders, not directly to the families.

 

As far as sports belt loops are concerned, we have been given Ultimate frisbee belt loops before, and I guess I didn't even think about the 30 minute practice. You are right about that. However, in our case, the boys did play on more than one day, so it could be fudged to be counted as practice.

 

I think you are right about the awards, but I also wouldn't want to get so nit-picky that the boys don't want to come back to Day Camp or even stay in scouts. I know Cub Scouting is a family program, but I have tried hard to help those boys whose parents aren't interested, to achieve as much as I can help them achieve.

[SSScout 1615]

I know that our CSDC always passes out a requirement list that has a proviso in caps to the effect "ask your Cub about the activities. Some of the listed requirements MAY not have been passed due to weather, etc. and therefore need to be completed at home" . I don't think BLs are "given away " at our CSDC. I think the camp staff does a bang up job (99%volunteer with a tiny budget) with what they have. If anyone has a concern about honestly earning a badge, speak to your camp staff and find out.

[Newbie Den Leader 10]

Greg,

 

Talk to the camp officials and let them know that they are not quite accurate on earning the belt loops as you have explained. This appears to be plain-ol miscommunication that has been passed on to the other volunteers who have not taken the time or initiative to look at the actual requirements.

 

In Cub Scouts, there is a lot of giving away of awards. Sometimes it happens by an honest mistake or sometimes its done by creatively re-interpreting the requirements. Sometimes I feel that much of the latter occurs rather than the former. In either case, its up to informed parents to give back the award or belt loop to the Cubmaster when junior has not actually earned it.

 

Youre doing a good job and keep up the good work. Belt loops are EASY to earn, but still need to be earned.

 

--Jeff

 

[scottteng 11]

 

hold on now specs on archery and bb gun belt loops are that they are only to be awarded at day camp by a certified cub scout rangemaster. There is a specific course that is followed with specific things that need to be followed. Granted it is not rifle merit badge the safety rules are simplistic and drilled into the boys daily. at our day camp at three different venues bbgun, archery, and wrist rockets. If you want to run a cub scout range suck it up and give up an entire saturday to go through the training with an approved camp school trained trainer. Been their done that and have the card and t shirt to prove it. Until then keep your opinions to yourself or take it up with the range master or shooting sports director. Its really like lego blocks the real basic simplistic stuff you drill into the cubs at the bb range is just a foundation for the future bricks to be added at summer camp later.

As far as the rest of the sports are concerned if the boys spend a 30-40 minute period each day for a week that should cover practice and basic rules requirements. Look at all the posts in boy scout sections regarding adding to requirements.

[Newbie Den Leader 10]

scottteng,

 

I'm not sure who you are responding to but I'll emphasize it again. The BB Gun Belt Loop requires that the Cub Scout "explain the rules for Safe BB gun shooting you have learned to your leader or adult partner". This requirement is not done at my district's day camp and therefore it is not yet completed. However, it can be completed at home or at a Den Meeting. As a volunteer den leader at my Day Camp, I will sign-off that the boys have shot BB guns under the instruction of a certified range officer, but I do not sign-off that they have completed their BB Gun Belt Loop.

 

I'm glad you gave up a Saturday to be a trained to be a BB Gun instructor. Not many are willing or have the time to do that.

 

 

[Lisabob 13]

"I'm glad you gave up a Saturday to be a trained to be a BB Gun instructor. Not many are willing or have the time to do that. "

 

And it's a pity too that more people don't or can't do this, because running the archery range at our district's day camp was among the most enjoyable things I did as a cub leader!

 

Lisa'bob

 

 

[Greg Nelson 10]

scottteng:

 

"Until then keep your opinions to yourself or take it up with the range master or shooting sports director."

 

OK, you tell me how I should handle it.

 

Now, I don't know how your camps go down, but our rangemaster such as heck doesn't have enough time to sit down individually with 400 boys and have the Cubs explain BB and/or archery safety rules. Yet there it is in the belt loop requirements. And it's pretty clear that the communication should be from the boy to the adult, not from the adult to the boy. Telling rules to the boys is NOT ENOUGH. They have to verbally show comprehension.

 

So, my day camp rangemaster has bestowed the right to BB belt loops on the boys in my Pack, without any of them ever opening their mouths. Is it really just my "opinion" that the boys have not, in fact, completed the requirements?

 

You bring up the topic of adding requirements. I am doing no such thing. In fact, I would argue that the rangemaster is taking it upon himself to waive requirements by telling the boys that they have earned the loop.

 

Here are my choices:

 

1) Get into it with my rangemaster that he's blowing off one of the 3 requirements for the BB belt loop. I don't know what would come out of this, other than 2 volunteers yelling at each other.

2) Go ahead and give the boys their belt loops, even though I know (since I was there) that the boys did not satisfy all the requirements.

3) Cover the rangemaster's rear by quizzing the boys myself about BB safety, then awarding them their belt loops.

 

What's your choice?

 

 

P.S. Don't even get me started on the sports loops. The boys spent ONE 30-minute session on each sport, including about 15-20 minutes of actual play time. You wouldn't take your Webelos for a walk around the block, then tell them they're completed their 3 mile hike. So why is it OK for the boys to play soccer for 15-20 minutes, then be told that they have

 

1) Explained the rules of soccer to their leader or adult partner,

2) Spent at least 30 minutes practicing soccer skills, and

3) Played a game of soccer,

 

when all they really did was #3?

[Lisabob 13]

Greg,

 

As I mentioned, I was the archery range master at our Cub Day Camp for several years (and loved every minute of it, too). Here's how I handled the rules issue. I'm sure other range masters do things slightly differently to suit their needs, but all of us are hopefully acting w/in bsa guidelines.

 

1) Prior to boys entering the range we'd have a short safety rules discussion. I'd make it a sort of question and answer format so that they were participating rather than me just lecturing. Only if they got off into left field or something I'd do more straightforward "here are the rules".

 

2) Once they entered the range (we had benches along the back, behind a rail, where they sat while not shooting) I had them do a quick recap. Something like I'd say "You should always point your bow...." and they'd answer as a group "down range!"

 

The above can be done with an attentive group (and/or with their parents helping them be attentive) in a short amount of time. Only then would we begin actually shooting. And since the boys were always excited about archery, it wasn't usually hard to get them to pay attention.

 

I also had posters hung with the safety rules written on them, and told them they were expected to read and discuss with their adult leaders while waiting for their turn. And I did also provide the adults with a couple of copies of BSA policy for shooting sports for cub scouts so that they could pursue further, as necessary.

 

So I didn't do an individual discussion with each boy, I'll agree; we did it in group format. But as this was a pre-condition for entering (sorry, but MY) range, the boys were generally quite responsive and with very few exceptions over the several years, the parents with the groups were more than happy to take 5 minutes to "reinforce" that information with the boys who were sitting on the bench and waiting for their turn to shoot. So I felt this was a reasonable way to cover things for a large group of cub-aged boys.

 

(as for the "MY range" thing - please don't take offense. However, the thought of a bunch of little boys working with sharp projectiles does raise safety issues and my biggest concern was making sure that the bases were covered in this department. To meet this responsibility I had specific rules and procedures, and they were enforced. Also as a woman I found that occasionally there would be a boy (or worse, a parent) who seemed to think that I didn't know what to do with a bow, and that they could act as they pleased, causing safety issues for everyone around them. So yeah, MY range to ensure safety. Not an ego thing, a safety thing.)

 

Lisa'bob

[Greg Nelson 10]

LisaBob:

 

Thanks for the response. As for the "MY Range" thing, I agree with you. In a setup like at our camp, with 15 boys shooting at one time, and 200 or more coming through each day. you can't have more than one sheriff.

 

The problem with the group response idea is that, in any group, there will always be 20% of the boys just sitting there saying nothing. Now, some of them know the answer but are just shy. Others have no idea what the answer is, since they go to la-la land any time someone tries to teach them something.

 

Since I know the boys in my Pack, I have an excellent sense of which boys have and have not been paying attention. I have a boy who will sit there with his head rocking back and forth, yet have 100% comprehension. I have another who will stare intently and nod, yet 5 minutes later will have no recollection of what was said.

[Lisabob 13]

Here are the requirements for the archery beltloop.

1. Explain the rules for safe archery that you have learned in the district/council camp or activity you are attending with your leader or adult partner.

2. Demonstrate to your leader or adult partner good archery shooting techniques,including the stance and how to nock the arrow, establish the bow, draw, aim, release, follow-through and retrieve arrows.

3. Practice shooting at your district or council camp for the time allowed.

 

All of the above comes with the caveat that the shooting sports beltloops may ONLY be earned at council or district camps, with the supervision of a properly trained range instructor. Also, the Cub Scouts Shooting Sports book and the USSCouting.org web site both include the following statement: The Archery belt loop and pin can only be awarded by a BSA range-trained shooting-sports director.

---------------------------------------------- Greg, I completely agree with your comment that individual pack leaders/parents can follow up with the boys to make sure that each of them has a clue. My understanding of the beltloop requirements above, as well as the safe shooting training that I took through my council, was that if I wanted additional people to have authority to help, such as to verify that the boys were meeting the requirements at an individual level, I could request such help. To such ends I routinely "deputized" parents from the packs to reinforce the safety rules with the boys while they were waiting their turn to shoot. Consequently nearly all of the boys were able to meet the requirements even in a relatively short time frame.

 

In fact there were only a handful of boys to whom I would not award the beltloop, out of the 1200-1500 who passed through my range in a three year period. In those very rare cases, it was due to major behavior problems that prevented them from being safe. And so they couldn't shoot. But like I said, it was EXTREMELY rare.

 

Overall - I think you're right that day camp staff need to be clear about the actual requirements covered and not award things that haven't been earned. But I also think that most day camp staffers would agree with that too and wouldn't intentionally award something that wasn't earned, especially if you nicely called attention to it.

 

Lisa'bob

[scottteng 11]

You'll have messed me up this is the second time you have sent me to the truck for my training stuff and got me in hot water when asked for my card on the bb range today it was sitting on my computer desk and I had put it back in the truck now I had to get it again. The big three they really want them to know are 1"always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction" ie on my range (its a rangemaster thing get over it) down range or straight up as we load em full up with bb's none of this cup with nasty bb's going into the gun

2 "always keep your finger off of the trigger until ready to shoot"

3 "always keep the gun unloaded until ready til use" no loading or pumping until they hear the magic word

In addition to these three they want them to follow basic range commands how does a parent or leader teach range commands? that is not happening!!! the boys get it one of them walked out of the range this week saying I am a robot I am a robot I told him that was good and while he was on my range he was my robot. I review these rules b4 each group gets to shoot asking them questions about each part. and enforce the rules on my range after you sit a boy down for letting a rifle point in the wrong direction it is all over camp b4 the day is over. The added bonus that we would like the boys to know is the four things they should do when another child asks them to play with a gun say no, leave the area, tell the other child's parents and their parents this is usually done by telling a story or a hypothetical. Now their appointed leader for day camp is the assigned den leader or the leaders running the venues especially when the venue involved involves certification. We do not generally have cubs requiring adult partners ie tigers in camp due to their not being recruited til fall. all of our former tigers are now wolves and in wolf dens for day camp.

[SWScouter 34]

Okay, I'm just curious how everyone seems to know what the BBGun Shooting BL requirements are? Where did you read them? They're not in the Cub Scout Academics & Sports Program Guide, nor are the requirements for the pin. The same is true with the Archery BL & pin.

 

Thanks,

SWScouter

[Lisabob 13]

SWS, Actually I thought they were (are?) in the CS Sports & Academics guide - but I gave my copy away to the pack's new adv chair when I stepped down so I can't check. At any rate, the requirements I posted for archery came from the following link:

 

http://www.usscouts.org/advance/cubscout/sports/archery.html

 

(They have the requirements for all the other beltloops too and are generally considered to be a highly accurate site.) The source they reference for the archery and BB beltloops & pins is titled Shooting Sports for Cub Scouts, No. 13-550.

 

Also as I mentioned, I did go through my council's shooting sports training and we were given a variety of BSA publications, at least a couple of which included the requirements for these two loops/pins.

 

Lisa'bob