Pack Dues

[dlw73078 10]

Due to sluggish popcorn sales (we are short about 20 boys this year) my committee and I have decided we have to charge for Boy's Life & Recharter. This is the first time in years that the parents have been asked for this money ($25).

I have one parent, who is also an assistant den leader (she didn't go to the leaders meeting where the dues were decided) who is complianing about this. She has exclaimed that over the past years as a den leader she has spent over $1000 in activities and equipment for her den (and says she can provide receipts). I advised her that she and the den leader should have made the parents aware of the expense and had den dues to cover it. She had never heard of den dues.

When I didn't offer to reimburse her with Pack money she threatened to go to the newspaper and exclaim that the Cub & Boy Scouts are extorsionists. That we tell our leaders to pay for things and never offer to reimburse them.

As a result she definately feels that she will not pay the dues. I can't make an exception for one irate person when I have 40 other parents who aren't complaining. These things are normally paid for with popcorn money. She wants to know why her son went out and sold popcorn if he was going to have to pay dues as well. I told her that the top selling boys are also paying these fees and their parents are ok with it.

She now wants the pack to cover her in a scholarship, because she is poor and won't be able to cover this $25.

She is excuse after excuse after excuse.

How do I handle this person?

[FScouter 24]

Organize a pack spaghetti dinner.

 

The den should be collecting dues and turning them over to the pack. The pack should pay or reimburse for den expenses. It's not fair to expect den leaders to personally finance the program.

[Torveaux 10]

Unless the Pack Committee authorized her in advance to spend Pack funds, I would suggest she keep any items she purchased and write off the rest as a donation to Scouting.

 

More importantly, I would like to recommend something we tried this year to avoid future issues like this.

 

1) Tell everyone up front what the cost of a year of Scouting is in your Pack. In our case it was about $100.

 

2) Do the math to figure out how many $ worth of sales each boy needs to reach to 'pay' for his own membership.

 

3) Let the parents know up front that any boy that is unable or unwilling to sell at least that much is responsible for the balance to the Pack to cover his membership. (ie, if you get 40% profit and they sell $100 then the family is responsible for the remaining $60 as dues)

 

4) Do whatever you can do as a leadership group to make selling popcorn easy. In our Council we use the show and sell method (the Council provides the Pack with the popcorn up front so it can be sold and delivered at the same time).

 

5) Help any poor families in your Pack work it out in some other way to avoid a burden.

 

6) Set some additional incentives for the Dens/Individuals. If your Den all reaches a plateau, get them ice cream, or pizza, or a banner, whatever works for them.

 

7) Follow through by letting everyone know what the average sales per Scout was.

 

In this way, those who do a good job of selling popcorn do not feel that they are having to pay for those who do not really try. This type of system helped us almost quadruple our profits in one year. (about the same number of kids) The bonus is that incentives and such may help get your profits up high enough to absorb the difference in the few cases where boys cannot reach their goal.

 

In all honesty, we charge a base set of dues up front and then the balance is targeted by the popcorn sales. There is not really a good reason why you could not have the whole balance reachable through sales.

[dlw73078 10]

The Pack has never asked Den Leaders to carry the financial burden of their dens. I was a den leader for 3 years before I stepped up as CM. That is why I think she is being a bit ridiculous.

I do like the idea of flowcharting everything and letting everyone know up front how much popcorn needs to be sold to cover their expenses and then track it.

It may be a bit more work for me, but I think it wwill be worth the extra time at the computer than dealing with another parent like this.

As my Bobcat friend said, she's gone in two months.

Thank Goodness!

[SemperParatus 1]

Life is too short to hassle with argumentative people...recharter the boy, do not pay for Boy's Life renewal and do not recharter her as an asst. den leader (she has 2 months left before crossover?)

[Lisabob 13]

Is this $25 in addition to the dues they pay in the fall? If so, what were your dues? And is she going to need to pay again in 2 months when her son joins a troop? (did I read right that her boy is crossing over? I saw "she's gone in 2 months"?)

 

I agree it is ridiculous for any volunteer to claim, or expect, the pack to re-imburse her for $1000 of unauthorized "den expenses." If she was really spending that much money then she went way overboard (A scout is thrifty?). Not to mention that if she's been holding receipts for a long time she should hardly expect the pack to suddenly reimburse her for years' worth of expenses! Still, it would probably be a good thing to include the pack's reimbursement policy in your orientation material for future leaders to avoid a repeat of this.

 

Generally speaking I wouldn't have a problem with paying an extra $25 if the pack finds itself suddenly short. However, I would want the option of signing up for BOys Life or not. (I'd choose it, but others might not). Additionally I would consider asking the pack to set up a partial scholarship fund to defray the cost for families in need. Without Boy's Life we're only looking at $15, right, so if the pack offered to pay $5? Even if all 40 boys ask for the scholarship that's only $200 and it isn't likely that they would.

 

Any chance of asking your CO to contribute some/all of the recharter money? I've heard that many COs do this - ours never did, but then again, I don't think anyone ever asked (we had no idea that other COs did, at the time).

 

Agreed that this woman is probably just being argumentative. But still, you can't know what her financial situation is at the moment. And it might be easier to just say ok, we'll do this for people who believe they need it and operate on a trust basis. Some will abuse it (and she might be one of them) but most won't.

 

Lisa'bob

A good old bobwhite too!

[John-in-KC 311]

Agree with both Torveaux, SemperParatus, and LisaBob:

 

$2 a week is not an unreasonable amount to cover supplies and snacks for a den. I do believe a Pack Treasurer should have the books set up for ongoing receipts and distributions from Dens. I also believe Den dues are immediate operating funds, although they can be used as "Christmas Clubs" to help the Cub save for camp or Webelos camp throughout the program year.

 

If there is a youth whose family is in genuine financial straits, then it's the CM's job to approach the COR and see how the unit and the Partner can work together ... bringing Scouting to the youth!

 

One other comment, and it does frustrate me, because I think BSA is acting like a "for-profit" when it does this:

 

Pack A, because of the charter cycle, may end up paying Youth B's full year dues. If Youth B is going to move up to Boy Scouting and join Troop C, then the membership should migrate ... but the local Council will probably charge the $1 transfer fee (and if you believe the salary of the clerk/typist I who inputs that change to ScoutNet, plus the bandwidth, plus the energy cost of her workstation is $1 for the 25 seconds it takes to poke in theat change, then I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you!)(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[dlw73078 10]

No dues have ever been paid in 15 years by any parents, except when they first join the pack. I have explained that boys who signed up this year are already covered.

So this is a first time thing for the $25.

Our Co gave us $100. This gives us some leg room.

We have decided to give in to her request (not for the $1000) but I am slightly weary of the impact this may have.

Lisa, you are a good Bobwhite and always have excellent advise, I am glad I found this site, all of you really help ease my mind. I sleep well knowing I have you all to assist with these problems.

[FScouter 24]

I'd characterize the den leader as more frustrated than argumentative. She's frustrated because the pack failed to adequately fundraise to pay the pack expenses. She's frustrated because she has personally funded the operation of the den, and apparently the pack is OK with that. She's frustrated because the pack does not have a plan to pay for den expenses.

 

The woman may be gone in 2 months, but the root of her frustrations remains.

[bbng 10]

I'm torn on this issue. On the one hand, I believe there is a legimate complaint. Den leaders should know about den dues, and they should be informed as to how to collect them and turn them into the treasurer along with how to be reimbursed for supplies. If the pack has only budgeted a certain amount, that needs to be made clear also. It seems that the pack committee didn't do its part in making this happen.

 

On the other hand, to be a leader for years and simply fund the den and then complain about it...well, this is something the den leader should have asked about/complained about long ago.

 

If it were up to me to handle this, I'd (1) immediately have the pack leadership get together to work out reimbursement procedures for all leaders beginning today and moving forward. I'd also give this family a scholarship, thanking the den leader for her service, apologizing for her feeling the need to fund the den, and letting her know she is not expected to continue doing so and never was. If she bought supplies for the den, items that can continue to be used, I'd have the pack purchase them now, which ends up helping out the pack (it has supplies to use for the next den leader) and this den leader who will be reimbursed to some extent. But that's what I would do, and I was a CM, and I kept after the committee to PLEASE work these things out.

 

I've not yet heard mention of a treasurer or committee of any sort. Do you have a committee? As CM, this is not your role. Yes, support the den leaders, but no, don't try to budget and fundraise and solve every problem. That's too much for anyone.