KurtB 10 Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 I do not have the insignia guide handy at the moment, so much of this I am pulling from memory... (if I remember correctly) - The diamond shaped webelos badge is for those scouts that did not earn a Tiger badge. (they are suposed to occupy the same spot in the larger diamond). - The oval shaped Webelos badge can only be worn on the Tan shirt. - The oval badge replaces all of the other rank badges on the Tan shirt (not worn above the left pocket, with the other 4 badges still on the left pocket as I have seen done). If a scout that has been in the program since Tigers earns the Webelos badge, and does not replace the blue shirt with the tan one, does the Tiger badge just get replaced with the Webelos badge? I know that this sort of sounds like a "If a tree falls, and makes no sound, can it still be used for firewood?" question, but it is something that will probably be happening in our pack in the near future. TIA for the answers, Kurt Link to post Share on other sites
Greg Nelson 10 Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 Shoot me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the diamond-shaped Webelos badge was supposed to be discontinued after 2004. That is, those who earned the Tiger badge in its first year, 2001-2002, Wolf in 2002-2003, and Bear in 2003-2004 would have earned Webelos in 2004-2005, the year AFTER the last year of the old Webelos badge. Thus, in theory, the Tiger-Webelos in the same slot problem would never come up. If the boys don't want to switch to tan uniforms, I guess they could take off the old rank badges and replace them with the Webelos badge. Having said that, I know my Scout Shop still sells the old Webelos badge, and yours probably does, too. Then again, they also still sell Tiger t-shirts, leading to mass confusion with the new parents. Now what I'd like to know is this: What do my Webelos that are new to the pack do with their Bobcat badges on the tan uniform??? Link to post Share on other sites
Torveaux 10 Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 Bang! The badges are both OK. Oval was created for the Tan Uniform only. My son was never a Tiger and he likes the 'fruit salad' on his blue uniform, so he will use the diamond badge. 4 of 5 boys in our den wear the blue shirt. Only one was a Tiger. My understanding is that the Webelos Badge takes the place of the Tiger Badge on the blue shirt. Caveat: If my son outgrows his present shirt, there is no way I am going to buy a new blue one for the last year or so. He will probably start wearing the tan shirt late next year. Frankly, I think the tan shirt was a bad move. It further separates the Webelos from Cub Scouts. They are part of the Pack, not of the Troop. The more things that are kept unique, read cool, about Scouting, the more likely the boys are to continue. If it were my decision to make, I would have made the Tan shirt only OK for those boys who had earned their Compass point badge or entered 5th grade. (Essentially, Webelos IIs) Alternatively, I would have done something to ensure that those Cubs that had worked hard to get arrow points and rank badges would have had a way to display them on their Tan shirts. I would also have a small pin or something for each Cub rank that could be worn on the Scout uniform (akin to service stars?). Sorry, I guess I like the idea of the boys having an official way to show their accomplishments and dedication to Scouting. Link to post Share on other sites
Lisabob 13 Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 This is one thing all the boys in my son's webelos den commented on at one time or another as we did more things with area troops. "How come their uniforms are so booooooring????" Along with mourning the end of the blue shirts with all their hard-earned rank advancements, they noticed the absence of the patch-covered red vests. Boy Scout Merit badge sashes, which are displayed infrequently, were small consolation to them. On the other hand, parents seemed happy enough with the switch to tan shirts and fewer adornments - less sewing! Personally I like that the boys can wear either blue or tan as webelos. A lot of parents that I know would be reluctant to buy a new blue shirt for their (growing!) 5th grade son, given that he'd need a tan one in just a few months anyway. For the same reason I like that the Tigers wear the blue shirts now - they'll get more use out of it than when they had separate shirts for tigers vs. everyone else. Besides, the tigers seem to love wearing the uniform - might as well capitalize on that while they're young! And no, I have never seen anywhere what new webelos boys in tan shirts who earn the bobcat are supposed to do with it! Our informal decision was to let them wear it on the tan shirt until they earned the webelos badge, and then they would replace it with the webelos badge. That's probably wrong but nobody I've asked has been able to provide the definitive right answer; everybody seems to have their own make-shift approach here. Lisa'bob A good old bobwhite too! Link to post Share on other sites
ScoutNut 147 Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 "And no, I have never seen anywhere what new webelos boys in tan shirts who earn the bobcat are supposed to do with it!" Ahhh - Lisa, you haven't read the Insigna Guide or the Uniform Inspection Sheet lately have you? : Per the Uniform Inspection Sheet (because I can directly copy a quote & not have to hunt it down) : "Webelos Scouts wear only current badge of rank (Bobcat,Wolf, Bear, or Webelos badge) centered on (left) pocket." The accent on current is mine. This is their option if they are new, or choose not to go with the rank badge fruit salad diamond. If they choose the diamond, & they are new, the Bobcat would go at the top & Webelos (when they earn it) would go on the bottom. Just me, I would go with the 1 current badge of rank. Less sewing, unsewing, & resewing. Link to post Share on other sites
Lisabob 13 Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 Scoutnut writes: Ahhh - Lisa, you haven't read the Insigna Guide or the Uniform Inspection Sheet lately have you? : Per the Uniform Inspection Sheet (because I can directly copy a quote & not have to hunt it down) : "Webelos Scouts wear only current badge of rank (Bobcat,Wolf, Bear, or Webelos badge) centered on (left) pocket." --------------------------------------------------- Guilty as charged (hangs head). Don't know how I missed that. Anyway that's what we had been doing so I guess our instincts were good at least. Thanks for clarifying. Lisa'bob A good old bobwhite too! Link to post Share on other sites
miker104 10 Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 On the 2003 Rev of the Uniform Inspection Sheet (#34282C) from my Cub Scout Leaders Book it says: "Webelos Scouts have the option of wearing the oval-shaped Webelos badge by itself on the tan shirt only; or the diamond-shaped Webelos patch along with other rank badges on either the tan or blue shirt; or it the Tiger Cub patch was earned, the Webelos diamond-shaped patch may be worn on either the tan or blue shirt by itself and centered on the left pocket." Seems like they covered them all! The version of the Uniform Inspection sheet at scouting.org is the B version (2001 version). http://www.scouting.org/forms/34282.pdf Link to post Share on other sites
KurtB 10 Posted November 30, 2005 Author Share Posted November 30, 2005 Torveaux - I agree. The Tan shirt is too plain. The cubs spnd up to 4 years earning awards to put on the uniform, and then it is all gone (just to look like a Boy Scout). I like the service star for rank idea. So, in I understand the rules based on the inspection sheet, the Webelos badge options are... - Oval = tan shirt only - "Solo" Webelos badge or full diamond if Tiger was not earned, worn on either shirt. - "Solo" Webelos badge (or oval on Tan shirt) if they earned Tiger (not the full diamond w/ Tiger replaced). Kurt Link to post Share on other sites
fgoodwin 23 Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 The blue diamond-shaped Webelos patch is NOT being discontinued. Remember that LDS Packs don't use the Tiger program -- so LDS Scouts may continue to use the full-diamond of rank patches as was the case before the Tiger diamond replaced the Tiger strip in 2001. Thanx, Fred G. Link to post Share on other sites
ASM416 10 Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 KurtB writes: "Torveaux - I agree. The Tan shirt is too plain. The cubs spnd up to 4 years earning awards to put on the uniform, and then it is all gone (just to look like a Boy Scout)." Isn't one of the purposes of the Webelo program to bridge the gap from Cub Scouts to Boy Scouts? If this is the case, then whats so wrong with looking like a boy scout. Especially since they will, if all goes well, not just look like Boy scouts but be Boy Scouts! Maybe I feel this way because I was never a Cub Scout and have spent 10 years wearing Boy Scout uniforms. Just a thought, sorry if it opens a can of worms!! Tim Link to post Share on other sites
Torveaux 10 Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 Bridging is one thing, that is what camping with Troops and Troop visits and learning the Scout Oath, etc. is all about. Webelos are part of the Pack, not part of a Troop. The uniform for Cubs provides a location to show what the boy has accomplished. Just when he gets much to show off, they have him change shirts and start over? If they insist on the tan shirts at some point, they should have them continue to wear all of their Cub Scout awards. Link to post Share on other sites
MarkS 11 Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 Greg Nelson said, "Shoot me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the diamond-shaped Webelos badge was supposed to be discontinued after 2004." You're not wrong but discontinuing a product or changing a program has never stopped the BSA from selling out-of-date patches or handbooks until their stock is exhausted. Here we are in year two of the new Tigers uniform and the handbook has yet to be updated. Link to post Share on other sites
Torveaux 10 Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 MarkS, Where did you hear the diamond was being discontinued? The oval patch was introduced to go with the OPTIONAL tan shirt. The two do not cancel each other out. Link to post Share on other sites
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