Inactive scouts

[mbscoutmom 10]

We're off to a good start this year, with lots of new recruits. However, two of our scouts have not returned to meetings. After numerous attempts to contact their dad, we found out they still want to be in scouts, but aren't coming right now because football practice is on the same night. This man had signed up to be an assistant leader, but didn't even show up for the training that the pack paid for!

 

When they come back after football season's over, and after popcorn sales is over too, do they owe dues for the months they've missed?

[molscouter 10]

Why can't they do popcorn sales? All you need to do is drop or mail forms to them.

 

Regarding dues, a couple of questions. Are these den dues or pack dues? If they are den dues, isn't it up to the Den Leader? What are the dues used for? Supplies, pack income? If a boy misses a meeting because he's sick, do you normally charge him? This alone might answer your question.

 

The pack I serve is lucky. Our popcorn sales more more than adequately meet the financial needs of the pack and we don't have to charge dues.

 

 

 

 

[msnowman 10]

If they had quit over the summer and then changed their minds in December, would you charge them dues back to the beginning of your Scout year (for us that would be September)? When they return to meetings, then they become part of the program and should be responsible for dues going forward...why should they pay for something they aren't using? If I cancelled my cable (God forbid) and then changed my mind 3 months later I'd be more than a little irrate if they wanted to charge me for the months that I didn't have it.

 

BTW - Gratz on the lots of new recruits. Glad your year is off to a good start.

 

YiS

Michelle

CM - P102

[mbscoutmom 10]

We haven't charged dues before, either for the pack or den, so that's why I'm asking. The pack used to make enough from popcorn sales and donations, but our balance is too low now to keep that up. We won't have the money from popcorn sales for several months, so the dues we collect now are needed to pay pack expenses.

 

Michelle, these scouts aren't quitting. They're still registered with our pack, but not going to meetings. If you stopped watching cable but didn't cancel it, you'd still have to pay for it, wouldn't you? I'm just wondering what other packs do in this type of situation. Instead of charging back dues, should we charge them for individual expenses as they come up--expenses the other scouts have been paying for all year?

 

 

[msnowman 10]

mb, I understand that they haven't quit (and here's hoping they won't), and that they are still registered with your Pack at least through recharter. What I was trying to say (and failed at, wouldn't be the first time and definately won't be the last /smile) is that since they are currently inactive, they aren't costing the Pack or the Den anything, since they aren't receiving awards, taking part in Den/Pack activities, etc.

 

We have 2 boys who have opted not to return to the Pack this fall (both have heard the call of the stage). Both are still registered with the Pack until we recharter in December. However, if they were to change their minds and come back at a later point, we would simply charge them dues going forward. We would be handling them and their return the same way we would handle a boy who signed up in December or January.

 

On the other hand, the father who stood up Pack paid training? Him I'd hold accountable for the Pack's cost if he had agreed to take the training in the first place. That was an example of bad form.

 

Good luck....

Michelle

[5570xr2 10]

I'm not sure what I'd do about the 2 Scouts without having solid financial guidelines in place. Get together with your committee and come up with a policy to mitigate this risk in the future. We only do pack dues and collect annually. This is our gameplan in a nutshell:

 

-do a budget plan in August for all anticipated costs

-set your popcorn sales goals based on the budget and divide by the number of Scouts

-if they don't meet the individual sales goal, the family pays the difference.

-set aside pack money for the start of next year

 

we take roughly $1000 out of our finances in December (after we get our popcorn check) and set it aside to cover us from Aug-Dec.

 

We were in the same boat a few years ago - the year started and we had no $$. It's tough to do it the first time, but after that, it's easy sailing.

 

Hope this helps.

 

YIS,

Mark

 

 

 

[ScoutNut 147]

Conflicts between sports, school, other extracurricular activities & Scouts will always be there. What you do NOT want to do is to make them choose. If you do that, more often than not, they will not choose Scouts.

 

Work with your 2 Scouts, their family, & their den leaders. If they are not Webelos, make sure they know that they can, & should, be working at home on all rank achievements. Can your den leaders change their den meeting nights every so often to give these 2 boys a chance to attend? Can any upcoming den field trips be scheduled at a time when these 2 can attend? Make sure their den leaders mail them all den & pack newsletters, fliers, etc. Have your Popcorn Kernal (head of your popcorn sale) personally bring to their house the popcorn info. Explain the program to them, give them all due dates, & sign them up for Booth Sales if you are doing any. There is no reason they can not participate.

 

As far as the pack dues, I would not charge them for the time they are not active. As has been brought up, they are not costing the pack anything if they are not active.

 

If you want these boys back, you must make them feel comfortable that they are not "falling to far behind". You need to make it easy & painless for them to be able to participate as much as possible now & then feel good about coming back full time when they can.

 

 

[EagleInKY 14]

Scoutnut-

 

I agree with almost everything you said. However, if the pack dues are annual, I would not give them a break on it. The reason is we set our budget based upon annual needs, and then set dues and fees accordingly. Often, the overall costs to run the pack for the year do not change because these two boys don't participate for a couple of months. They're still going to advance, earn awards, etc.

 

Now, if the dues are weekly or monthly in nature, and cover specific activities during those months, my answer would change. But our pack doesn't budget that way.

[anarchist 10]

mbscoutmom,

 

EagleInKY...

 

sorta nails it...fiscally you need to determine what the dues pay for (example if dues pay for all the awards and patches and if the boys will earn awards this year (later?) and patches (later?)they should pay now or pay individually for the patches etc.,...if it is for activities they will not take part in, the story changes a bit...but you do need to be fiscally responcible as well as fair in the decision.

anarchist

[madkins007 10]

We did almost the same thing as 5570- figure the needs, etc. but we charged the families the full costs up front, payable 1/3rd upon registration, and the balance by October's pack meeting. Popcorn money and other fundraisers could be used for summer camp, next year's dues, etc.

 

We also offered no refunds unless we asked the family to leave the unit (only happened once, sad story for all concerned.)

 

Our method was voted upon by the parents one year and passed almost unanimously, and was re-voted each June pack meeting.

 

It gave us some strong benefits-

- big cash flow early in the year when there is a big need

- strong incentive for families to support the program to 'get their money's worth'

- absolutely NO pressure to sell popcorn or anything else. You sold it to help pay off next year and summer camp, or you did not- it did not affect the unit's base cash flow. Oddly- without the 'need' to sell, we usually did better than we had ever one before!

- almost NO 'nickel and diming'- we did not need to hit parents up every few meetings for more cash for stuff.

- No record-keeping elements for den leaders. With a pack annual dues, a certain percentage went directly to the den leaders and we could usually reimburse immeiately.

 

 

So- with that policy in place, we would have already collected their dues and would not be refunding them, and they would have known this from even before signing the forms.

[FScouter 24]

Boys should be encouraged to earn the money for their weekly dues. Paying dues regularly is not easy, but it helps develop character in each boy. It gives him experience with handling money, teaches him financial responsibility, and gives him a positive attitude toward earning his own way. Families should be urged to find ways that boys can do small things around the house or neighborhood to earn money for their dues.

- From the Cub Scout Leader Book.

[Cubmaster Jerry 10]

Bingo! EagleinKY hit it on the head. If it is Pack dues you are referring to, be very careful if you do not charge them for "inactivity". Most, if not all, packs who charge Pack dues, use that expected income to plan their annual program. If you start allowing parents to pay-as-they-go, you will run into problems.

 

As ScoutNut so correctly noted, there will always be conficts. What if a boy missed a Pack activity and a Pack meeting for one particular month for whatever reason. Do you not charge them for that month because they didn't participate? Do you offer refunds if they have alreay paid their annual dues?

 

If it is Den dues, then, no. Don't make them pay back den dues because the supplies purchased for those meetings are normally bought while knowing how many to buy for. Planning for Den meetins is normally done on a weekly basis and not an annual basis like Pack activities. And, just because they can't attend the den meetings, they can still work toward advancement.

[madkins007 10]

FScouter- thanks for taking the time to post that passage!

 

Before we went to the method we did, we discussed it with parents, leaders, and the committee. That specific point was brought up and tried for a year. We chose not to repeat it.

 

I consider that as a suggestion rather than a Method or policy. I know it works great for many units and more power to them. As for us, it just was not consistant with KISMIF in our own corner of the world.

[mbscoutmom 10]

We're in a sticky situation, because we didn't charge dues last year and now we do.

 

There are many families who have their kids in sports and miss some meetings and events, but they make an effort to keep up with their achievements at home, make it to everything they can, and, most importantly, communicate with leaders about what they're doing. Although I wish they'd try harder to schedule sports on different nights, these families are not the ones I'm concerned about. They'll pay their dues and earn their rank.

 

The ones I'm concerned about are several that are like the one I described in my first post. In previous years, not charging dues or requiring much of anything allowed scouts to drop in and out whenever they felt like it. Leaders would plan meetings with 8 boys in mind and only 2 or 3 would show up. Scouts wouldn't show up for weeks, then come just in time to receive awards at the Blue & Gold and get signed up again when we re-chartered. Then they'd drop out of sight again. When you get in touch with them after many tries, they give you lots of excuses, but say they still want to be in scouts.

 

I'm thinking about writing a letter to them, explaining the new dues structure, and that to continue to be a member of the pack they will need to pay dues, participate in fund-raisers, and keep in touch with their leader about advancement and scout events. If I do this, I know very well we're never going to see them again.

 

Would you do this if you were in my situation? Can you suggest something better?

[Cubmaster Jerry 10]

You have to do what's best for the entire Pack. If the Pack can no longer put on a quality program without charging dues then make the change.

 

In your situation, yes, I would certainly notify all parents that payment of Pack dues is forthcoming. Having a boy drop out of scouts is easily the last thing that any leader wants to happen. However, you can't run a program with no money.

 

You can't do much about the parents who will take their son out if they have to pay, no matter what the amount is. However, I am sure you have some that will find it financially difficult. Some ideas to combat this problem and soften the blow for all is allowing Pack dues to be paid in two installments or using some of the profit that the boy earns from fund raisers to go toward his dues (i.e. account for each scout).

 

Before I arrived in my Pack, there were apparently many parents who questioned why they had to pay so much. The leaders at the time itemized the expenses per boy for an entire year and showed where those dues were going and why they needed additional money from fund raisers to pay for the quality program that was put on. All questions were answered. This may also be a good tool for you.

 

Also, don't forget to compare the minimal cost of scouting with other activities. For example, in my Pack, a parent probably doesn't put out more than $60 a year (not including start up cost of uniform). Compare that with the cost of 2-3 month sports activities.

 

Good luck!

Jerry