Age Restrictions on Power Tools

[scoutldr 726]

How does one get hurt with a jackhammer?

 

1. Permanent, irreversible hearing loss.

2. Raynaud's Syndrome (vibration "white finger" disease)

3. Injuries from handling high pressure air hoses

4. Foot injuries (are you going to buy everyone a pair of $100 steel-toe boots for use on the "project")

5. Eye injuries from flying debris

6. Back injuries because young scouts are not "conditioned" for heavy labor

 

I can just see the lawyers drooling...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[www.BSA957.org 10]

What about the doc at

http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/resources/18-260/chart.html

Who created this one. It sure looks like official BSA material.

This is the doc my Cubmaster pulled out tonight to stop our webelos from touching the power tools we had set up for Craftsman. I wasn't even allowed to let a Webelos scout draw down a drill press while I secured the materials.

[evmori 11]

Unless I'm reading the chart wrong, Webelos are allowed to use power tools! 1st time I ever sat this, though.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Crew21_Adv 25]

Fellow Scouters,

 

Greetings!

 

Since the original post of the question on Age Restrictions on Power Tools in 2002, the information on Scouting.org has come along way.

 

The Guide to Safe Scouting has been placed online (which just years ago was only in print), and the chart of Age Appropriate Guidelines for Scouting Activities has been changed a few times, and is also found online now.

 

My Venturers like to take a lot of risk (Gee, Go figure), so I am constantly reviewing these publications.

 

 

Please allow me to add a few comments...

 

Remember these are only guidelines. Inside of the GSS, the bold type font denotes BSA rules and policies. I interpret guidelines to be a path to follow; and if we deviate, we may get stung, hurt or even a lawsuit (Ouch!). Abide strictly by the rules, and follow the guidelines closely.

 

On the Age Appropriate Guidelines for Scouting Activities chart, it does seem vague... The color row bars seem to illustrate restricted activities, while the darkened row bars illustrate permitted activities. So, it seems to illustrate that Webelos should not use power tools, while Boy Scouts and Venturers may.

 

Finally.. Maybe you will get a chuckle from this....

Over the years, I've been rappelling and rafting, skiing and falling.

I recently spoke with an outdoor recreation manager, their shop was offering a new sport to me. "Canyoning". Imagine combining, rappelling thru a wind smoothed crevasse and white water rafting over class 5 rapids without the raft. It looks fun! But no way am I showing my Venturing Crew this video!

 

So now while reading this string, I look at the Age Appropriate chart and see "Bouldering".. I thought maybe this "Bouldering" and "Canyoning" are one in the same. (Silly me). So I look up bouldering in google and under wikipedia.

 

After I woke up off the floor, I thought "Are you kidding me??? We allow Cub Scouts to do this?!"

 

I just hope my Venturing Crew youth never look at the Age Appropriate Chart and find out what "Bouldering" is! lol

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21_Adv

[Beavah 205]

Nuthin' wrong with boulderin'. Just have to adjust a bit to the kids in terms of spottin', crash pads, and especially how high they go. Most of our climbin' munchkins in this area can do some whacky stuff.

 

And canyoneering is fun, or at least would be for some venturers or a venture patrol.

 

Just goes to show that makin' things safer doesn't improve safety. It just increases the craziness of the things you can do, eh?

 

 

 

 

[John-in-KC 311]

Ed,

 

Sadly, I think that chart was ill designed, and thus, you are reading it wrong.

 

From what I can see, the color blocks represent GUIDELINES DISCOURAGING, the black space represents PERMISSIBLES.

 

I find interesting:

- As we discussed in other places, Camporees are now "Visit Only" for Webelos.

- Winter camping is now discouraged for the entire Cub program, Tiger to Webelo.

 

Does anyone know the breakpoint between "initiative games" and the low course activities of COPE?

[scoutingagain 20]

"Just goes to show that makin' things safer doesn't improve safety. It just increases the craziness of the things you can do, eh? "

 

There's actually a term that's been developed for this. It's called Risk Homeostasis. It's basically the concept Beavah observes. Put a helmut on a kid on a bike and he just rides faster, doing more dangerous stunts. Put a rope and a harness on a kid and he just climbs higher on more dangerous rocks. Give an adult a car that has better brakes, handles better, on better roads and they just drive faster. The implication is we all have our own internal risk tolerance level and will modify our behaviour until that tolerance level is reached.

 

So, give us PFD's, helmuts, ropes and some smooth rocks,(I hope!) and now we go Canyoneering!.

 

SA

 

[Eagledad 2777]

In just about all scouting activities, whether it be leading a flag ceremony or an Eagle Project building a gazebo for a nursing home, scouts are basically only limited by the fears of the adults. I try and explain during my training that the real definition of Boy Run from my perspective is the willingness of the adults to let the scouts run their program.

 

All adults have fears and limitations they see of themselves. I do not enjoy rappelling. I tried it and I don't like the fear I feel from it. Should I let that fear limt the boys program? The best boy run troops are the ones where the adults push the program beyound the limits of their fears. How do you do that, you train the adults and scouts to lead and control that activity safely and wisely to remove the fear.

 

Now most of you can see the fear of sending a Patrol of new scouts backpacking in a state park without training, but I know of a new troop that was mostly led by women who struggled to let the scouts even lead a Flag Ceremony without adult help. They could stand the thought of scouts not doing it right. But at the same time, they never trained the scouts because they weren't sure how.

 

What we think is safe for scouts is a matter of perspective from one person to the next. The only way to deal with the fears that limit the scouts program is to train everyone so that we are nolonger afraid.

 

The Jackhammer I think would be a wonderful tool to teach scouts because it is so easy to use safely provided the proper training a safety equipment. It's not that I want boys to learn the jackhammer, it's that I want them to learn the process of how to use tools safely. All tools. Most accidents come from just grabbing the tool and using it without any proper training. Do you know that most scouting injuries come from the saw (adult and scout). And yet the saw is usually the least talked about as far as safety because it's use appears so simple.

 

We need to set an example of respect, not fear. Never say "No", say "Show me how we can do it safely".

 

Barry

[EagleInKY 14]

Great post Barry!

[packsaddle 753]

A lot of judgment in these decisions, for sure. The jackhammer thing put me at odds with Bob White a long time ago, I thought they were too risky (at least for the boys in this unit).

Power tools run the gamut. I see less risk in the Dremel stuff than in many unpowered hand tools (like ultra-sharp woodcarving tools). I see more risk in a circular saw than in many other power tools, it does depend on the boy, his willingness to learn and respect the power of the tool, the tool itself (some have better safety features), the job, and the supervision. I think it also depends on the level of preparedness in case of that accident.

 

Barry, I see your point about the jackhammer and about fear. This leader's fear is grounded on experience of watching, over the years, persons of various age losing fingers, hands, toes, eyes...and having to give the first aid after each instance (workplace accidents mostly). My mind replaces those adults who made poor decisions with the faces of the boys and I don't like what I see.

 

We go bouldering all the time. The great thing is you can do it almost anywhere and the worst thing that usually happens is a bump or a bruise or maybe a broken bone. Almost no risk of death or loss of limb. It's strenuous, very challenging, competitive, and a little imagination puts the boy over the yawning depths of a canyon not the padded carpet or the soft grass and soil of the climbing site a couple feet below.

 

BTW, the personal fear I face on outings is in a cave where I have to stretch my arms ahead to become small enough to squeeze through a long crawl slot, becoming stuck and then unable to maneuver enough to get free. The air is damp and getting stuffy, all of a sudden my foot is jammed in a crack, my helmet is wedged in a narrow place and I can't turn my head to see how to move.....

The sensation is simply exquisite!

[Eagledad 2777]

>>The jackhammer thing put me at odds with Bob White a long time ago, I thought they were too risky