mallway 10 Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 I am a brand new Webelos Den leader. I have a wonderful son that has really taken up with cub scouting. Here's what is going on. Our council is a mess.(Shawnee Trails) There is much fighting and horrible name calling and nashing of teeth between our district executive and the man who had a meeting to get all of us to join this newly formed pack. It has been said that he had no authority to have this meeting and ,although they took our money, we are not recognized as a pack. I have parents droppping out like flies because of all this turmoil. I have four wonderful boys in my den and don't want to disappoint them. Does anyone have any advise to help us get through this? I've really been disappointed in the lack of leadership and total chaios of this organization. Help us. Link to post Share on other sites
EagleInKY 14 Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Hello fellow Kentuckian. Welcome to our virtual campfire. It's impossible for me to guess what is going on from your description. I believe we'll all need to have a better understanding of the status of your pack. Do you have any more details? Has the pack formally been chartered? For a pack to exist, a chartering organization must exist(usually a church, but can be a school, civic group or an organized group of parents). This chartering organization has a form to sign and a fee that they have to pay to be recognized. They also have to have the required number of leaders and (I believe) 5 registered boys. Link to post Share on other sites
mallway 10 Posted September 30, 2004 Author Share Posted September 30, 2004 Okay, here are the details as I know them. We "sort of" have a charter org. I say this because the paper work is in ,but the church still has to have a parish meeting to vote on it. This could take a couple of weeks. We are scheduled to have our first pack meeting tonight. Of course this is supposed to be fun for the boys, but one of the fellows that is part of the trouble said he will be there. Our council says to make him leave and not to pay any attention to him or his followers. I don't want the kids to be upset by any confrontations.This has the feel of something very messy. Link to post Share on other sites
Twocubdad 665 Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Something here is very wrong. If it were simply a matter of getting the paperwork right or even the timing of getting the charter approved the DE should be bending over backwards to get things registered and running. That they are telling you to keep one or more of the pack organizers away tells me there is much more going on than just paperwork. I would want to get to the bottom of it before investing any more time in this unit. Call the DE and whoever at the church is responsible for the program (should be the Chartered Organization Representative, if they've gotten as far as appointing one). Ask questions and be aware of what you are getting into. Link to post Share on other sites
FScouter 24 Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Welcome to the group. You can get some good ideas and help here. But you will need to spill the whole story. "...fighting and horrible name calling and nashing of teeth... " isn't the normal result of forming a new pack. Why would the church turn in the paperwork if they still need to vote on it? It isn't possible to start a pack by rounding up 4 boys and announcing a pack meeting. Your pack would be formed through your church and the DE, not through a "man" and a den leader. Link to post Share on other sites
mallway 10 Posted September 30, 2004 Author Share Posted September 30, 2004 The DE is supposed to return my call soon. What are the questions that I need to be asking? I'm so new to all of this and if it weren't for the fact that my son loves being a scout I'd be so out of here. What responsibilities does the charter org have? They are new to this also and Father Joel is a friend of the fellow that our council has told us to stay away from. If I want to keep my son in cub scouts can I get away from this council?Really bad things are going on here. Link to post Share on other sites
johndaigler 10 Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Mallway, welcome!!!! Good luck getting through this chaos. Who is this unnamed man??? What's his title?? Role?? Scouting is supposed to be very open and transparent, so this lack of information is very troubling. I think Eagle and TwoCub are right when they suggest you get more info and tread carefully and slowly. Even if it takes an extra week or so to get the boys involved, I would suggest that it might be better to get all the adult stuff straightened out first. If you can be more specific with details, the guys here will be able to be more helpful. Ask questions. In particular find out the name and role of this mystery man, and the other adults with Pack responsibilities so that you can clear up all this "stuff" and start working together to offer program to the boys. We all hope it works out well for you and your boys!!! jd Link to post Share on other sites
Twocubdad 665 Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 What is the status of our charter? What is the status of our individual registrations? What happened to the registration money? Why are we to "stay away" from any given individual? Who is the Chartered Organization Representative, Committee Chairman and Cubmaster of the unit? How can I join another pack in our area? Link to post Share on other sites
mallway 10 Posted September 30, 2004 Author Share Posted September 30, 2004 On September 2nd the parents from our schools system were invited to sign up our boys to cub scouts. When we got there we find out that if we want our boys to be in cub scouts we had to sign up as den leaders for a new pack. The man that was doing the recruiting said that the old pack had died and this was a new pack. We parents begrugingly signed on to be leaders for the sake of our boys. Now we are in the middle of a war between our DE and a volunteer recruiter. What should we do?Ask me any specifics. I'll be happy to answer, just tell me what you need to know to help us out. Link to post Share on other sites
mallway 10 Posted September 30, 2004 Author Share Posted September 30, 2004 The volunteer is DELETED. He has been in scouting for over forty years. I know very little, other than he did my training last weekend and he was the recruiter. Every thing looked and seemed official at the meetings, but our DE says that none of the trainings or meetings were approved by the council. She knew nothing of what this DELETED was doing. (This message has been edited by a staff member.) Link to post Share on other sites
EagleInKY 14 Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Methinks you may be paying the price of some other problems. Perhaps this guy was somehow related to the pack that died. Maybe the DE doesn't want him involved for some other reason. I've seen similar things happen. Don't blame the council or the BSA. It sounds like you've got some type of personal agenda in the way here. I agree with what the other poster said. Take your time. Don't rush to get things going only to have a negative experience for everyone. Best to let the CO, pack leadership and the district get things straightened out first. Link to post Share on other sites
mallway 10 Posted October 1, 2004 Author Share Posted October 1, 2004 Update. We just got home from our first pack meeting even though things are a little unstable. We parents decided to have it anyway. It was a blast! the kids had so much fun and the parents did too. We decided to not let the "politics" get in the way of our boys having a good time. I'm sure everything will smooth out in the end. It usually does. Thanks for all the help. Link to post Share on other sites
FScouter 24 Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 The "politics" will only get worse if you plunge ahead with your new "pack" before you have the organizational structure set up. Do you have a pack number? Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 I would recommend that you 1) disassociate yourselves from the "recruiter". He messed up and his continued participation will only cause more problems. (families should not have been enrolled before the needed church signatures were gathered and a committee was in place.) 2) Have the pastor of the church select a spokesperson who is a member of the church and who will join the Pack as the Charter Organization Representative (CR), 3) Have the CR contact your local District Executive and rquest that either the DE or an assigned Unit Commissioner, help to complete the unit charter according to the council's process as soon as possible. 4) Get everyone in a program leadership role and Pack committee role through training. Your council website will have links to Fast Start and Youth Protection. Have the CR contact the District Training chair and arrange for New Leader Essentials and Cub Leader Job Specific Training for all the Pack positions. These 4 steps will get you firmly placed on the right road to provide a solid program for the boys and their families. Best of Luck, Have fun, Bob White Link to post Share on other sites
Jim_C 10 Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 Clearly this "mess" should be referred to a Commissioner, be it a Unit Commissioner assigned to your Pack or the District Commissioner. It is his primary job in Scouting to "help units succeed." I find it really difficult to understand why a professional Scouter (the DE) would be resistant to starting a new unit. New units are one of his "critical achievements" and his compensation is, in part, tied to creating successful new units. As a Commissioner myself I'd love to delve into this situation but, of course, it requires local assistance. Starting a new unit has a set of regular, sensible steps that keep you on track to success. You can read all about it in the BSA publication: New Unit Organization Process, No. 34196. You can't materially err in following the step-by-step process outlined in this publication. It's available from your local Council service center. Keep in mind that it's the professional Scouter's job to help THE VOLUNTEER. They work for YOU and not the other way around. YIS, Jim Costello, Assistant Council Commissioner, Great Sauk Trail Council #255, BSA, Ann Arbor, Michigan Link to post Share on other sites
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