Retention

[CubsRgr8 10]

Came back from my son's troop meeting last night disappointed to learn that troop leadership expects to lose half of the new boys by this same time next year. It's a big troop that had 20 boys crossover in March from four different packs, bring total membership closing on 100. Is it typical to lose so many so soon? To expect to? I thought we that we wanted to keep them all until they were 18.(This message has been edited by CubsRgr8)

[k9gold-scout 10]

Our troop has 60 scouts, last year we had 5 eagle scouts - a very good year. Scouting is fun in our troop but the progran takes a lot of work for both scouts and parents. Not all scouts are expected to take part in every event; but with backpacking, camping, biking, skiing, canoeing, service projects and summer camp, many parents convience their kids it is just too much for their family. A few scouts will wind up in other troops but most just drop out.

 

Over the years, usually during a eagle project or troop community service projects, adults will come up to me when I am in uniform and tell me that they were in our troop when they were kids and they always say they have fone memories of their time in scouting. The only regret is that they didn't stay longer.

[LongHaul 10]

CubsRgr8,

I would think losing half your NEW scouts would not be something a Troop should take lightly. While Webelos, how many different Troops did these boys visit? You mention that your Troop got crossovers from four different packs. How many troops do these boys have to choose from? I'd ask those who are leaving what attracted them to you in the first place? What did they expect that they didn't get and could they get it in another troop. I love this program so much I hate to see kids missout because they are still kids and don't realize that leaving may be a bad decision.

[Bob White 20]

CubsRgr8,

 

Thank you for not being comfortable with such a statement. Pardon me while I try to type clearly as I grind my teeth.

 

To casually write off the hopes of 10 boys is unforgivable. To know you have a program with a 50% first year failure rate, and not make immediate changes is unbelievable. would you take your child to a doctor who had a 50% success rate. Or even hire a plummer who said he could fix the problem about 50% of the time.

 

I would take my son and run to another troop as fast as I could before he became just another statistic to this leader.

 

No that is not, and should not, be acceptable to any leader. I don't care if five boys or fifty join the troop.

 

Bob

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Why are they leaving? Sports? Band? Oher committments? Poor program? with 100 scouts did they get lost in the program? There has to be a reason, some may be legitimately not the troops fault, but I would check into it for sure. What has their retention rate been until now? Last year, 2 years ago? Got to be a reason. We have a large troop and I know the commitee chair feels sad for any ONE we lose,let alone for 10 in a year from one "class"(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[Mike F 10]

CubsRgr8,

 

You have every reason to be concerned. Concur with all -- sounds like there's a serious problem here. Especially concur with Bob White -- unless you have the expertise and energy to investigate and fix something that they apparently don't think needs fixing, run. There are other troops in area. Now you have a better idea of the kinds of questions to ask.

 

Renewed search for troop will be confusing for your son. I recommend you spend some time investigating on your own or with another concerned parent. After you've decided on a troop or two that look more promising you can take boys to visit. If possible, go observe them for a while during a campout -- lots of insights you don't get hanging around a meeting room.

 

Move quickly. Summer camp commitments are coming up and it would be a shame to miss out.

 

Good luck -- you're on the right track!

 

-Mike F

 

Forgive me for being long winded, but thought I'd pass on a story related to retention that shows the difference one dedicated leader could make.

 

My troop had an interim SM when I first joined as an 11-yr old and the bullies were out of control. I decided scouts wasn't what it was cracked up to be and dropped out after a few months. My former Webelos leader, now in another troop, heard about it and hunted me down to find out why. We talked. He was disappointed, but didn't say anything more right away. A few weeks later, he found me at the neighborhood pool and told me things were going to get better - I should give it another try. "No thanks - it's not for me" I resisted. For weeks the man seemed to have a radar out for me - always nudging me to go back. I finally relented and, lo and behold, the bullies were no longer there. Spirit of troop had changed dramatically. I went on to become an Eagle and Vigil OA member. Have been active in scouting through college, Air Force, and married life, until birth of second child made my wife lay down the law. (Seemed she had a problem with me going camping with other people's kids and leaving her at home with two of mine. Imagine! My kids couldn't grow up fast enough!)

 

It wasn't until years later I learned that my Webelos leader had been working with our new SM to identify and fix the problems. And he had made several trips to my house to visit my parents when he knew I wasn't home. My parents didn't know much about the program and weren't inclined to try and talk me into anything. "Mike needs to be in scouts" he kept insisting.

 

Moral of story: One determined man kept me from being a retention statistic and changed my life in the process. Each one of us can make that difference, too.

 

God bless and good luck!

 

YIS,

 

mike f

[k9gold-scout 10]

Yes our troop dose attract between 10 and 20 new scouts every year (most AOL) about half will drop out the first year - the biggest reason - PARENTS! We require each parent to sponsor 2 events per year, this seems to be too much for some of the new parents who have done nothing for cub scouts. These are the same parents who drop their kids off at meetings and have 2 adults waiting for hours after a hike to come to the church to reclaim their son. In our district there are 3 other troops the same size the rest are much smaller, and the larger ones have a like experience.

[Bob White 20]

What kind of events are you asking them to do?

 

Bob

[k9gold-scout 10]

Anything to help - One meeting (games, sports, merit badge, scoutcraft) and one outing (day hike, backpacking, service project) even fundraising. Be active - teach a hobby or skill. We will happly count summer camp as both!

[slontwovvy 10]

The statistic that I once heard was that 30% of boys will drop out of Scouting in their first year. I will add that our troop loses about seven or eight out of twenty per year.

[jmcquillan 10]

CubsRgr8,

 

If the troop program isn't what it should be to attract boys and keep them, well, that's something that the troop can fix. But, there are other things the troop can not fix.

 

While it may not be "typical" to lose so many, it is, quite frankly, "typical" that some will leave. Scouting is not for every boy. Even among the really young, Cub Scout age, there are those who know right away that it's not something they're interested in. If their friends are, they're more likely to. When they reach the age to cross-over, they have more "other" interests in their lives, and their "need" to be with their friends may not be quite as strong as it was. And this is to say nothing of the "other" interests they'll gain along the way as they get still older. Sometimes, it doesn't matter how wonderful the Scouting and troop program are.

 

And then, there's parents. In Cubs, parents get used to the one of two adults who seem to do everything, so they don't have to. (BSA = Baby Sitters of America?) When their boys reach the age to cross-over to a troop, with a program that out of necessity requires the involvement of most parents, they may begin to question whether they can support such a commitment, and so much time. Their boys may suffer the brunt of their decision, and Scouting will not be a part of the boys lives. In defense(?) of those who take that path, many parents today get their children involved in far too many activities. Kids will be changing uniforms in the car as Mom or Dad drives from one sport to another to Scouting to Church activities to and from school to Grammas house to home.....(puff, puff....) And what happens then? Kids never have a chance to give 100% to any one activity. It's 50% here, 50% there. Some parents actually recognize their childrens limits, and choose, or "help" their boys choose among activites. Scouting is not always included in these choices. Many times, that happens only after the boy has crossed over, and Moms & Dads become all too aware of what Scouting will require, from them, and their boys. For a variety of reasons, they walk away from Scouting. It's not always on a level playing field with other activities, like sports. Parents will commit their time to sports over Scouts, as their interest may lie there, and their boys go with that choice.

 

k9gold-scout said that parents have said their "only regret is that they didn't stay longer". I've heard parents say that, only to find that they're among the ones who decide that Scouting isn't as important or as much fun for their boys as youth sports are. Go figure. Our troop was pretty much always at the 60-70 boy mark, and our retention and program were admirable. But we still had our drop-outs, whether Dad had been a Scout or not. We did not have "feeder" packs. There were two packs, and two troops in town. Cubs only had two choices for troops. Our troop always seemed to get the Lions share at cross-overs, thus our numbers stayed high. We had many Dad's say that they had been in Scouting. Some were able to re-live it, or finally get what they missed as a kid, but not all. As I said above, some left anyway.

 

One thing we must remember...we are not the only game in town. And boys do not "need" nor are they "required" to be in Scouting. We should not feel like failures if many boys choose not to participate, nor should we complain if some leave. What we should do is make the program offering as good as it can possibly be, ("if you build it, they will come"). We should "focus" on working with those boys who are there, and want to be in Scouting. If there are some, or many, who choose otherwise, so be it. This is not a numbers game, here. It's a program and opportunity game. And if we are able to work with only a few who really want and enjoy it, then that's about the most wonderful thing we can hope for...we will have touched a few, and hopefully helped them be better for it. Those who choose not to include Scouting in their lives, we wish them well, and leave the doors open for them, but we don't chase them.

 

But if, as I said at the beginning, the troop program can't pass muster, and that is why boys aren't staying, then that's something that can be fixed, and should be. But even then, you'll have some who leave, and some who never come in the door.

[Bob White 20]

k9goldscout,

 

Those things you are asking individual parents to do are supposed to be handled by the scouts or the troop committee as a team. Why has your unit chosen to make parents do that and why would the troop maintain a policy that they know is causing such a huge loss of membership?

 

The 30% drop off rate nationally is not meant to establish a norm that the units can compare themselves to. It's meant as a warning that units are not using the program and creating a terrible gap in program consistency while losing way too many boys from scouting.

 

jmcquillan says we are not the only game in town. That doesn't mean you can't be the best game in town. You membership loss may seem normal to you, but it is not normal to the majority of troops and certainly not normal to troops using the scouting program. The method of pressing parents into serving the roles you suggest is not found as a method of troop operation anywhere in the offical scouting program.

 

I urge you to re-think your methods, revisit scout leader training and get back to "the program", in order to stop causing so many boys and families to leave.

 

Not counting the scouts who age-out or have thier families move, the troops I have seen over the years using the scouting methods will lose less than 10% of their total membership in any given year.

 

Bob White

[sctmom 11]

The troop my son just joined also expects about 50% will leave in the first year. Reason -- parents. Parents don't understand this is NOT Cub Scouts. They don't understand the program and don't think the boys can handle the challenges. The parents who were involved at all in Cub Scouting can't stand sitting by and NOT running the show. I've seen the ASM's have to go get parents from the "boys" part of the room and tell them to come sit with the adults. You do NOT have to sit by little Johnny all night. The boys don't want to keep attending if things get "hard".

 

This troop is not one I will walk out on. I looked at a total of 3 troops. This was the best. It's not perfect, the SM being the first to tell me that. The main thing that makes up for that is that the adult leadership is open to new ideas and change. They are more than happy to hear my views and thoughts as a new parent. Especially since I'm willing to meet them half way and listen to them.

 

The other troops I saw had a worse retention rate. I've heard of others that have a horrible retention rate. Why? Scoutmasters who run the troop as if it is bootcamp or the boys are the servants, adults who don't know how to behave as adults.

 

Many Webelos never even cross over. I know most of mine didn't. Scouting was never a priority with their families.

 

[Bob White 20]

sctmom,

What kind of an orientation to troop scouting are the parents given the first time they visit and when they join?

 

Bob

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Without trying to be "smart", something I am normally not often accused of (as well as being grammatically correct, could all the things mentioned here have any thing to do with the thread under the Politics and Issues heading titled something about Scouting Membership being the lowest since the Vietnam war?

 

We cant keep on saying training is the key. If the message isnt getting through to the adult leaders and more importantly to the parents about what scouts is supposed to be, is a wholesale change in the way BSA promotes itself in order?

 

Training only works if its taken, how do we get the message across to those who never are trained? (esp parents)