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Albert_H

Proper Campsite Attire

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Albert,

 

Sounds to me as if everything has worked out ok. Also sounds like there is some hyper-awareness there - not neccessarily a bad thing, but sure can lead to some misunderstandings and mis-interpretations.

 

One great thing about these forums is that while what has been answered may turn out not to apply to the original poster's question, those answers may apply to folks who have similar situations but haven't asked, or for folks who have never had the situation but may in the future. Your question is a great one for all of us to think about, even if we never face it, and to get all the different perspectives. Thanks for it!

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He was told by a youth of something that he felt could be a potential youth protection issue.

 

Huh? Where do you get that from?

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"He said that one of the younger Scouts mentioned to him having heard another younger scout make a comment about the muscles of one of the older Scouts. He took it that it was meant in a "sexual" way"

 

Per above, the ASM thought there were "sexual" overtones in the comment.

 

My problem is that he never mentioned what this young Scout told him to anyone at the camp last year. He seems to have been concerned enough that he brings up the shirtless policy again, almost a year later. Yet, he still never tells anyone what that young Scout told him.

 

 

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In the not so far off future I will have been around Scouts and Scouting for about fifty years.

Sure, a lot of this time was before we had all the YP and all that good stuff.

This "Campsite Attire" thing has never been an issue. (Other than when I first came over to the USA in 1977 when the camp staff, after the campers had all gone home would at times go skinny dipping in the camp pool. - But I don't even hear of that happening any more.)

I remember when the first Troop I was in folded and I moved to my dearly beloved 17th Fulham (Pioneers) How one of the first things I noticed was how good the Scouts looked! They were all a great shade of brown with great tans.

I wanted to look like them.

I wanted to not be a white pasty little fellow.

Sure this was before all the talk about sun damage came out and I'm sure I didn't know what sun block was or if it was even around.

Today I'll admit to at times acting like an old mother hen, chasing our Sea Scouts around with an economy sized bottle of sun block in my hand and at times reminding them that a shirt might help prevent them from getting sun burnt.

I'll also own up to teasing OJ about how stupid he looks with his newly pierced nipples, which have resulted in him losing the services of the BOD (Bank of Dad.)

The Ship is co-ed. Before trips there is something that the QD came up with about covering up. No thongs or micro-bikinis. So far this has never been a problem. If I remember right the QD came up with this after receiving something from a camp that we had planned to attend which made mention of it.

I'm 100% for Scouting being a place where no one gets harmed. If a Lad is uncomfortable removing his shirt or wants to shower in his underwear or swimming gear? That's his choice. Most times after a few trips even the shyest of Lads seem to overcome their shyness by themselves with little or no comments from the other Scouts.

For me this just isn't a big deal unless of course we want to make a big deal of it.

I suppose if there is need for a dress code? It should be managed by the youth members, just as we did when the camp stated their policy and our Scouts addressed it.

The less rules a committee of adults comes up with, the easier it is for me to not have to enforce this stuff.

Ea.

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Just because on ASM thinks a comment like that has sexual overtones doesn't make it a YP issue.

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Yes Ed you are so right.

If we are not careful everything becomes an issue and the issues will overwhelm everything we ever hope to do.

Like it or not, at some point common sense has to kick in and we have to trust the people that we have selected to take care of our youth.

I spent a week at PTC with a woman who somehow managed to turn everything into a YP issue.

By the end of the week it was very nearly a AP (Adult Protection) Issue! What I wanted to do to her were a very long way from th Scout Oath and Law.

Ea.

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evmori wrote:

 

"Just because on ASM thinks a comment like that has sexual overtones doesn't make it a YP issue."

 

That's true, but when an ASM thinks that it is, and doesn't say anything about it, it makes you wonder what else he's not coming forward with.

 

Regards,

 

DWS

 

 

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>>"That's true, but when an ASM thinks that it is, and doesn't say anything about it, it makes you wonder what else he's not coming forward with."

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here is my 2 cents. Take it for what you like.

 

The boys sleep atire is completely up to them, we should not be in thier tents anyway. THAT is YP

 

If a young man has returned from their evening shower and happens to be outside of the tent without a shirt, that may not be an issue. They just need to understand that (if yo live in an area like I do) there is a chance that they are going to get more insect bites.

 

The daytime factor is something that you can control a little more. This becomes an issue of sunburn. This is a safety issue. Cut and Dry. A sunburned scout makes for a miserable event. Not to mention the days after that it hurts. I can attest to this as I have had this happen to me personally. I got a bad sunburn prior to a military field training mission. Equipment hurts when sunburnt.

 

Having the normal pick-up game of shirts and skins: OK if in the campsite, but on an activity field where every scout and staff member is going by, not so much.

 

There are other times when going shirtless may not be the best, like when cooking. Especially when cooking bacon.

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Had to go check out my memory, and yep, it's still there...

 

"Scout Field Book" c.1948, 1959 printing...

pg. 83, bare chested "indian" Scouts.

pg.129, canoeing and swimming Scouts, sans shirts.

pg.149, "construct a shower bath (and) a good wash basin stand". Scouts washing up, shirtless.

pg. 150, Shirtless Scout hard at it, chopping down a tree.

pg. 175, Scout cooking "planked fish", smoking himself, too, it would appear.

pg. 202, "Fun in the Water", etc. WoW!Birling at Scout camp???

pg.216, "indian Scouts" (?OA ? )and pg225, demoing breechclout wear.

pg. 231 A pirate skit, bare chest with skull &crossbones painted on.

pg. 235' "The indian camp is the place for advanced Scout camping."

And there are many more.

So what is the problem now?

When "FIRE ON THE MOUNTAIN!" was called out, we knew to dress up, 'get more decent' as my old SM would say.

 

It's not your Father's Field Book.....

 

 

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even as a female, unless this a co-ed Venture Crew that wants to make sure things are equal between male and female, this is the stupidest thing. Make sure the things needed covered are covered, and who cares about the rest.

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>>"That's true, but when an ASM thinks that it is, and doesn't say anything about it, it makes you wonder what else he's not coming forward with."

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>>"That's true, but when an ASM thinks that it is, and doesn't say anything about it, it makes you wonder what else he's not coming forward with."

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We currently have some 19-20 yr. old ASM's who grew up in the Troop during my tenure as a leader. We've always had a good rapport. Now this last summer they shared our leaders cabin at camp change in. And for maybe the first time ever they saw me without a shirt on.

They referred to me as "Sasquatch" and "Chia-Pet".

Is this hazing?

Should I call my mommy?

Maybe invest a small fortune in laser hair removal???

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But the question does remain: Right or wrong....When the ASM felt there was a sexual issue/ YP issue, why didn't he do something or at the very least, say anything to the SM or any other person including the scouts?

 

Why? Because he is reading something into a situation that isn't there? Maybe the YP issue is with this guy and not the Scouts! ;)

 

This is a non-starter and over-blown.

 

WAKWIB,

 

I think you should file a civil suit for defamation of character! Then call your mommy! ;)(This message has been edited by evmori)

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