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Eagle007

Expensive Summer Camp

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I went to your council's website and nowhere could I find anything about a council summer camp other than the notice of your leader's meeting May 3, 2009. No very user friendly for out of council scouts looking for a new camp to attend. I could not find even the name of your coucil camp doing a search of the website. Could not being able to find information about your summer camp be part of the reason numbers are down? I would assume that your council does not have a council camp if I was doing research of summer camps in your part of the country.

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As I mentioned to Eagle007 in a separate message, maybe he should take into account that his council camp (Tiak) was hit pretty hard by Katrina back in 2005. Since then, according to some stuff I saw on Pine Burr Area Council's web page, the camp has had some major rebuilding projects - 3 new pavilions and adding air conditioning to the dining hall. I don't know what else but I bet there was more than that.

 

I hope his camp is recovering well from the destruction, but all that stuff costs money and it has to come from somewhere.

 

ETA: By the way I stumbled across this article about cleaning up the camp and thought it was worth sharing. (DRAT - let me try posting that link again)

http://www.philstaff.com/?p=21

 

(This message has been edited by lisabob)

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Summercamp was about $65-75 back in 1979 and the early 1980's for my parents. Which is about a 4% increase each year, slightly more than the rate of inflation. Camps have added a lot of buildings and activities since I was a kid.

 

However, since I have kids either invited to other camps, or in them, I can say that band camp is 2X more expensive (and one less night). The church fun camp is 2.3x and one less night. I don't even want to get into gymnastics camp pricing. Oh, and want to check out the military schools camps (like Marine Military Academy) - those run about $1,000 a week (3,995 for a 4 week program).

 

 

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Our Boy scout camp is about $230 for a week. I also send my kids to a Christian camp in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan for a week. The cost for that is $140 per week. They are both rustic camps with cabins in the UP and tenst at Scout camp, which is more apropriate for scouts anyway. The food in the UP is far better but that is due only to the dedicated kitchen staff.

 

The main difference is the staff. Scout camp pays all their staff, the Bible camp is all volunteer. They do have about 15 summer staff college kids who get a small stipend...really small but that is it. Most of those who volunteer are there year after year. Some for a week or two, some for all summer, some of us just for a few hours at a time. I drive busloads of kids from the Lower Peninsula and drop them off. Boots on the ground time for me is often measured in minutes before we turn around and go home.

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Gotta agree with the others. I've sent EagleSon to more than just Scout Camp during his high school years. Once you get into the world of for-profit camps, Katey Bar the Door...

 

Band Camp: Trying finding one for the price of Scout Camp. University sponsored music department camps aren't cheap. Period.

 

Space Camp: I don't know what Huntsivlle charges, but I know what the Kansas Cosmosphere charges for its program, it's not cheap.

 

And the big haul ticket? European (band, foreign language immersion, art, etc) trip "camp"... those programs are $5K for two weeks, thank you very much.

 

If the Scout Camp has decent program at all, it comes out smelling like a rose by comparison.

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"Space Camp: I don't know what Huntsivlle charges, but I know what the Kansas Cosmosphere charges for its program, it's not cheap. "

 

Space Camp - $799

Space Academy - $899

Advanced Space Academy - $999

 

There are cheaper weeks, but they fall during the school year.

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Boy Scout Camp will always be cheaper than the other camps because like the Church Camp described, there is a lot of volunteer labor utilized. How much more would your Council Camp cost if every Troop site needed to be staffed with paid employees? Troop leaders, paying a fee to stay, provide supervision for the youth when the youth are not in a program area. The adult leaders who go to camp on their own dime and vacation are the foundation of an affordable camp, well at least less than Space Camp.

 

To all Scouters a big Thank you, you make scouting possible

 

If you are paid to do Scouting, you are called a Professional.

 

If you are not paid to do Scouting, you are called a Volunteer.

 

If you pay to do Scouting, you are called... ...

A Scouter or a scout, its age dependent(This message has been edited by oldgreyeagle)

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Well if the camp in question is Tiak, I looked up Camp V-Bar's fee schedule since that camp is Pine Burr's geographic area, but run by SE LA Council. V-Bar's early bird fee was $195, and the current ifee is $205. While it may be a little cheaper, I also know that they have had help in restoring the camp from Katrina, so that may explain the difference. Also I know that they have outside groups use the camp, hence only 3 weeks of summercamp, and that may also help with costs.

 

"V-Bar, V-Bar where we se the stars

SHOUT for the camp that means oh so much to me!"

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$225 or so does not seem out of line at all.

 

My last year of camp staff was 3 summers ago and we were charging around $180 in council and about $200 out of council. Plus there were some additional fees for kids wanting to do COPE and our other high adventure programs. I cannot remember for sure, leaders to meet the minimum leader requirements were free and each additional leader was 1/2 the youth fee.

 

So we are probably creeping up towards $225 this season.

 

As someone who has worked on both the program and the administration sides of summer camps I can attest to the fixed and variable cost that are necessary to run a summer camp. Plus, the camps with the best programs typically have older/more experienced staff members which cost quite a bit more than 16 or 17 year olds. Not to mention all the stuff like Camp School, CPR and first aid trainings, equipment, facility maintenance, vehicle upkeep, the list goes on and on.

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I did not realize that Eagle007 was talking about Tiak. I was there for a weekend of Powder Horn a year ago. Though the damage from Katrina was extensive, most of the downed trees has been harvested (at a profit to the camp) by logging company shortly after the storm. Several of the camp staff barracks (quonset huts) were destroyed by tree falls, but the weekend I was there, new "portable" building were being delivered (donated by a local police dept, whose main building had been completed).

 

The campsites need clean up, but were in good shape, and the normal permanent buildings appeared to be untouched and in fine shape. Their dining hall was one of the nicest I had seen. Yes the camp took a hit, but I felt that the recovery had been quite successful.

 

As I and others here have said, I do not feel that $225 is too unreasonable, especially if they are working to make camp improvements, as they were last year.

 

You have a great council camp. Support it!

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I agree that the cost cited does not appear to be out of line for a week at a quality camp. For those whose finances are tight, there might be help available if you look. My last (not current) troop used a donation years ago to establish a campership fund which paid the expenses of any scout whose family could not afford to send him to summer camp. The scout always had to pitch in on fundraisers and make an effort to pay part of the fees though. Perhaps your council has a similar program or perhaps you could start one.

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