Totem Chit cards and purchasing a knife at the trading post

[ASM915 90]

Tonight at the District Committee meeting, a situation that happened at summer-camp came up. An 11 y/o Scout, that per his parents request, was not to ever have a knife in his possession due to psychiatric related issues, tried to buy one at the trading post. He was initially turned down because he didn't have a Totem Chit card. The scout then went to Scout Craft and earned his card without the leaderships knowledge. The scout then went back to the trading post and purchased a knife without any questions being asked. The Scout later in the week was involved in an altercation (luckily without the knife being brandished), and subsequently sent home. The knife was found during the altercation.

 

A few questions:

 

1) How does your Council's summer-camp staff handle Totem Chit cards (TCC's)? Do they just hand the cards out to any Scout that completes the requirements, or does the staff place the cards in the Troop's in-camp mailbox, like they do with the adult certification cards, for the SM or ASM's to hand out back in the campsite

 

2) Does your camp's trading post staff hand over a pocketknife to any Scout that shows up with a TCC and the appropriate amount of cash for the purchase?

 

3) Does your camp's trading post staff require a letter from an adult, or better yet, an adult to be present for the purchase of a pocketknife by a youth?

 

As one of the members stated at tonight's meeting. "Can you just imagine 300 crazy Scouts running around camp with knives."

 

4)Does your Troop have policies on youth purchasing pocketknives?(This message has been edited by ASM915)

[nldscout 18]

Seems to me that this is a parent responsibility to insure he doesn't buy a knife. Its not the Trading post or leaders job to supervise what this youth spends his money on.

 

Where were the parents?? If he has problems and was sent home, why wasn't a parent there all along

 

[SSScout 1615]

My initial take on the post is that, yes, the Scout should get ALL his awards from the Troop. The Camp Class should always pass the TF, SC, FC, MB, Scout Lifeguard, Mile Swim, Totin Chip, etc. on to the Troop for final approval and presentation. I believe the TC class conselor was operating on the premise that this was an average Scout and "a Scout is Trustworthy". Pass the card to the Scout, he passes it on to the Troop.

The Camp may have learned something here, the Troop may have learned something and hopefully the parents have picked up a piece of info about their son too. AND the Scout should find a complete bunch of adults in agreement here that ultimately he cannot manipulate. Standards of behavior have consequences.

 

 

[Eagle69 46]

I think giving the scout the Totem Chip card directly was where things went wrong. The card should have been given to the SM at the end of the week with all the other advancement/awards stuff. If there was a compelling reason for the boy to have it before then, then the area coordinator should have given it to the SM.

 

As for the rules of the Trading Post,that depends on the camp rules. If the camp says you must show a TC card to buy a knife then that is the rule, if the camp has no rules then its not up to the Trading Post to decide who should or shouldn't be allowed to buy one.

[John-in-KC 311]

Where were a lot of people in this:

 

- Patrol Leader

- TG (if this is still a new Scout patrol)

- ASM overseeing this patrol

- Camp SM

 

I've seen Scout camps do it both ways. BTW, when I commish and do various trainings at camp, the Scouters get their cards on-the-spot!!

 

What does the Camp Program Guide or Leaders Guide say?

 

What does the Camp Director, PD, and area head say?

 

 

[local1400 10]

I was a Trading Post manager back in 1990. I don't believe we carried knives. That is a fairly big-ticket item to have sitting on your shelf and counting every week. Most kids who come to camp already have them. A good knife is what, 30 plus bucks? That's a lot of money for a kid to spend on one item. This camp needs to change it's policy and the troop and parents need to know the rules expected of them before camp.

[Oak Tree 15]

Our trading post sells knives by the bucketful. Some days it seems like every Scout in camp has bought one. I'm not 100% sure, but I don't believe they require the Totin' Chip - I think they'll just sell them to anyone who has the money.

 

They're pretty cheap. Way under $30. Not that they're good ones.

 

Can I imagine 300 Scouts running around with knives? Well, yes, that's pretty much how it works. Scouts with knives? Seems like an ordinary course of events to me.

 

[Gunny2862 11]

Gee, I thought we wanted them (in general) to be able to carry knives, but like many other things to be responsible with them also.

 

However, I would think that the Scout awards/recognitions/certifications (any) should be presented by the troop, not by the camp. IMHO

 

Scouter certifications could go either way.

[AvidSM 11]

A Totem Chit should only be issued by the Scoutmaster an no one else. He/She knows best if the scout is qualified to use a knife while camping and if there are other issues involved, as with the scout in ASM915's story.

 

Some summer camps have programs that teach the proper way to handle a knife. The camp my troop attends issues a Totem Chit to graduates of this program, but they go into the mail box and not directly to the scout. Let the your camp staff know if you want it done this way.

 

Most trading posts I've been to sell knifes and ask to see the Totem Chit before selling one to a scout. As an adult leader, you can ask the trading post staff to not sell knifes, or anything else for that matter, to scouts in your troop.

 

Using a knife while camping is almost like a rite of passage for the boys. And, rest assured that some of them will cut themselves - hopefully not too deep. Our jobs as leaders is to minimize the risk and hope that they learn from their mistakes.

[John-in-KC 311]

Avid,

 

Sadly, at least one Council camp does not believe that only the SM can issue the TC. That's one of the blinding points of ASM's post!

[SWScouter 34]

Just so everyone is clear, it's "Totin' Chip", not "Totem Chit".

 

Camp Raymond, Grand Canyon Council runs Totin' Chip classes the first day of camp. The scouts earn and receive them right there on the spot. The trading post sells knifes too. This year there were knives on sale for $9. Scouts must have a Totin' Chip to purchase a knife.

 

SWScouter

[RangerT 10]

I do not feel that a Totin Chit card is really an advancement and should be awarded when the scout finishes the class. THe SM and parents should of handled this issue before the boy even went to camp, if the boy was mentally deficent or dangerous he should have not been allowed to go even with parental supervision, bottom line. The trading post is not at fault, most never even ask for the Totin Chit, besides if this kid was going to get into trouble I am sure there would be a variety of things he could have gotten his hands on in camp to use as a weapon. If there is indeed any blame to give then it lies solely with the SM and the parents in the preplanning of this trip, if the boy was indeed potentially dangerous he never should have been allowed to go in the first place.(This message has been edited by RangerT)

[Scouter&mom 10]

So aren't there laws in your state that restrict sale of knives? Here in GA, you have to be 16 to buy a knife... and some stores won't sell them to anyone under 18. I don't know how the trading post at our camp handles this, never have been in the shop. My son doesn't know either. Never tried to buy a knife at camp. Main thing sold at trading post is sodas and ice cream.