Leadership Styles - Cub Day Camp and Adventure Camps

[ChuckSt8er 10]

For those who have seen a season or two at Cub Day/Resident Camps:

 

We've all been exposed to a variety of Leadership styles, and I'm curious to know what the feeling is about what's appropriate/works best when one is leading a small to mid-size group of boys and chaperone parents.

 

I've seen the "less involved" style in which kids/parents aren't really led, but are herded. I've seen the "overtly led" style in which one person establishes themself as the leader and is vocal, sticks to Scouting structure (marching in lines, active buddy system, keeping a tight rein on boys).

 

The first style is clearly more fun, but can result in kids running wild...inmates running the asylum. The second style may be truer to Scouting's traditions, but may be seen as a bit stiff and potentially "military" in nature.

 

I'm just curious to know what you all have seen/experienced, and what you have taken away from observing these other leadership styles (or styles not listed above).

 

All comments/feedback welcome and appreciated.

 

YIS -

Chuck

[SequoiaWDL 10]

Two years ago I had 11 boys (Bears) in my group, with easy 50-100 yard walks between stations. As long as the station instructor(s) had their act together, the boys were well behaved. Restlessness abounded, however, at the inevitable logjam called the shooting range.

 

Last year I got the privledge or herding 18 Webelos around a giant riverside park with lenghty walks (1/4 mile to shooting range) occasionally with only 1 or 2 chaperones, and sometimes no parental help. Forming the boys into 2 lines and marching them station to station at least made it managable...until two had to use the restroom... then 4 more need to run back and get waterbottles...

 

Get a read on the camp layout, get a read on the personality of the boys you're guiding, and make adjustments quickly, and don't forget why the boys are there...to have FUN!

 

 

[Lisabob 13]

Yup, I've seen this too, both as a "walker" with a herd of boys and as a range master watching the eager hordes descend upon me. Personally, I took a "controlled chaos" approach when I was a walker. We set some limits with the boys at the beginning of the day (stay w/ the group, buddy system, stop before entering a station, good manners, etc.) but beyond that, we tended to allow them to move as a herd as long as they weren't causing a problem for others. A boy who was really causing a problem would find himself walking with the adults for a little while, which tended to solve things.

 

My take is that whatever style you use, it will work best when you know the boys and they know you. Some parent that they've never met before that morning who tries to make them march in formation is likely to get a bad reception, at least by the end of the day when everyone is tired. Likewise, with some boys, an unknown adult who doesn't set some boundaries is an invitation to total chaos.

 

I will say this though - I don't believe militaristic marching is part of cub scouting tradition. Sometimes boys LIKE to march (and pretend) and there's nothing wrong with that. I've noted an up-tick in this i our current environment where we have a lot of kids with parents or other family members on active duty, and a lot of young, ex-military folks coming back to be cub scout leaders too. But it is neither required nor expected as part of the formal program. Anyone who tells you otherwise needs a refresher on their training.

[fotoscout 15]

It sounds to me like your council needs to get its arms around the Cub Day Camp and Resident Camp Programs.

 

The boys should be divided up into reasonably sized dens. In fact, there is a national standard about ratios (scouts vs. den chief or counselor). Which brings me to the second point. Each den should have its own youth leadership. We call them Den Chiefs in our Cub programs but by any name they are counselors.

 

If the program you're attending is herding people from station to station, and there is no youth leadership, I would think that it is "Family camp" or "Cub Parent Camping" and NOT a day camp or resident camp program. There are very distinct differences in these programs.

 

Getting back to your original question. Marching in lines is never "Scouting Structure". Walking together two by two is always nice and usually works in school, but we are not in school here. An appropriately sized group with friendly, casual leadership is always the best, especially when the boys are in camp.

[John-in-KC 311]

Fotoscout's last comment is absolutely spot on.

 

I'm not Kudu, and I don't play him on TV, but I was reading Footsteps of the Founder last night. It's a compilation of key quotes from B-P.

 

Particularly noteworthy were the comments about military drill being absolutely inappropriate for Scouts!

 

I was out at our Council's Bear resident camp last weekend. I was a campsite commissioner, so the first program day I walked trail with my campsite ... to get them used to the ground. The Cubs begged for Jody calls. I gave them things to sing on the trail, not "count cadence, delayed cadence, count cadence, COUNT!" or "Sound Off!"

 

How many Scouters have ever thought that cadence was designed as a tempering tool of army leaders, to help forge the raw steel of a hundred men into a fighting company of Infantry? Is that what you want for 8 and 9 year olds?

[OldGreyEagle 5]

then again, you could give them the best marching song of all time

 

chorus):

Follow me boys, follow me,

When you think you're really beat

That's the time to lift your feet,

And follow me boys, follow me,

Pick'em up, put'em down and follow me,

Pick'em up, put'em down pick'em up.

 

 

Sgt Reily said,

There's a fight to win,

Follow me boys, follow me,

And it won't be done till we all pitch in,

Lift your chin with a grin and follow me.

 

(chorus)

 

It's a long long climb,

But we've got the will,

Follow me boys, follow me,

When we reach the top

Then it's all down hill,

Till you drop don't stop and follow me.

 

 

So the journey's end

Is beyond our sight,

Follow me boys, follow me,

If we do our best

Then we've done alright,

Pack your load, hit the road and follow me.

 

(chorus)

 

 

[SequoiaWDL 10]

Methinks those of us in the early part of this thread may have used the term "marching" a little loosely. I've been to two Day Camps, 3 Webelos camping events, Camporee and several other Day-Camp-like events, and NEVER have I seen boys marching lock-step or heard a cadence from any den...and the only ones I know aren't appropriate for any scouts of any age (thanks dad). And this thread now has 6 responses on a topic concerning the 2-5 minutes between events at Day Camp.

 

Every night before retreat

Our First Sargeant....(you fill in the blanks)

 

 

[John-in-KC 311]

Ahhh, but I have, more than once.

 

At least one Pack doing it was from a military installation; the Dads were all mid-career officers and senior NCOs.

 

When I was walking with my campsite as a Commissioner last weekend, the kids begged for cadence calls... said their leaders did them all the time.

 

As I said, Lieutenant General Sir Robert Baden-Powell, Lord Baden-Powell of Gilwell, himself Inspector General of His Majesty's Cavalry and Colonel of the 13th Hussars, told us Scouters of all generations very clearly... using military drill is the Scouter's tool of laziness. There are other and better ways to teach our Cubs and Scouts.

[fotoscout 15]

I have also seen Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts marching in military fashion. It's not nice! I do however grant some leeway to Packs and Troops that are associated with the military. Imitating Dad or Mom is not a bad thing, as long as the marching thing is not taken too seriously. Unfortunately, when it happens in the vast majority of Packs or Troops, its being done with little real knowledge precision drill.

 

The comment about this being a very small part of the day needs some work. The time spent moving from station to station or area to area is a critical piece of any successful camp program. Believe it or not, there are program elements designed for this transition time. It takes a special kind of leader to pull it off, but this time can be the highlight of a boy's time in camp. Songs, jokes, games, and just simple conversation with an older scout is some of what should be done during this time. Long after the thrill of archery or bb's, or crafts is gone, the campers remember their den chief because of the fun they had with him while moving from station to station or area to area.

[John-in-KC 311]

I've heard singing on the trail...

 

God Bless my Underwear...

 

Froggy...

 

Oh, do you best your best the motto of a CUB SCOUT...

 

Anything that isn't 4/4 and 120 beats to the minute (standard marching cadence).

[ScoutNut 147]

It is not always possible to have a Boy Scout Den Chief for each & every Cub Day Camp Den. Actually, I would think it is fairly rare.

 

For our District Day Camp we have the requisite number of adults for the number of youth in each Den. The few Boy Scouts we manage to have are part of the youth staff and are working stations.

 

Except for archery, all of our stations are fairly close together. It takes just minutes to get from one to another. We allow a bit of extra time to accommodate boys who must head back inside for a quick potty break, but, by the time you got the boys attention to tell a joke or sing a song, they would already be at the station checking it out.(This message has been edited by ScoutNut)