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Canvas Tents - Anyone??

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How do you know when Boy Scout camp has become too soft ?



SR540Beaver answers that..


" many camps now provide electrical service in the campsites. I've been to two camps that do, but they are in forested locations with high heat and humidity."


This confirms my thoughts that maybe the 100th Anniversary is the right time for the BSA to split - one for the people who are here for the "real deal" and the rest can merge with the GSA.


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Shortridge - I don't have any experience with these guys, but I have been eyeing their stuff.. Lots of good reference info on their site too..


Somewhere I have a whole folder of linsk and catalogs on canvas tent mnfr's.. Can't find it now.. Will post when found..


Off the top of my head I know Kifaru is top notch gear -packs and tents - Search for their name.




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I propose a third split. One for the arrogant he-men who are uber-scouters. I've never taken a fan to camp and I never will. I know a number of scouters with cpap machines who need the electricity. There can be other health related issues where having electricity in camp is beneficial. There are times when having electricity in a campsite can be useful for maintenance work. There is nothing wrong with having electricity in a campsite unless you have people trying to run laptops, refrigerators, stereos, TV's and game consoles. I don't think anyone here has suggested such. If folks want to go into the wilderness in a loin cloth armed with their wits and a flint knife, more power to them. Last time I checked, that has little to do with the purpose of scouting. I'm sure there were people who complained when they actually brought potable water into campsites and you didn't have to carry it from a stagnant pond and boil it. Scouting seemed to survive that and it will survive other modern conventions as well. Times change and if scouting doesn't make minor adjustments here and there, it will be relegated to a museum display in fairly short order.

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I came back to edit and/or delete my post, but for some reason I don't have an edit icon available. My apologies for my un-scoutlike comments. I've grown tired of all the macho, he-man, I'm better than you are scouters who like to accuse many of the dedicated and trained folks here of not being the real deal because we don't practice scouting as it was at the turn of the 20th century. Perhaps I just need to take a break and concentrate on my actual scouting responsibilities. Again, my apologies for my comments.


If a nice mod would like to delete these two posts, I'd be more than happy to see them gone.

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If I'm arrogant because I claim that it softens the outdoor experience too much to have power in camp, then so be it.. And to the comment about none of this having to do with Scouting.... The "outdoor method" is a major part of Scouting and is not the RV method. Uber Scouter - a compliment IMO.


It's always cute how some folks (in this forum especially) just end up on the "change for the sake of change" / "not keeping up with the times" argument. Because they won't address the substance or principles of their view - usually because they have none.


And as far as what people are suggesting - that's not the point ..Point is Scouts and Scouters /parents are in fact bringing electronics to camp - more and more - TV's, frig, DVD player, PC's .. I've seen it.


Medical purposes argument - Sure.. But maybe they should stay in a cabin up at the staff area. I see this as the rare exception - like the old argument justifying no uniform because some kids are too poor to buy one.


I hope you feel better SR540..

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See, at this point I could ask who the GSA is, as I dont know those initials although from the context, perhaps the GSUSA should have been referenced, the Girl Scouts of the United States of America.


One could ask how a conversatin on canvas tents became a discussion on the pros and cons of having electricity in camp, but as I have referenced on other threads, Forrest Gump's feather, like a thread seemingly has a mind of its own and will drift where it will.


Personally I have a wedge tent from these guys:




Thing weighs a ton, as does the three poles needed to set it up, but its fun. I hope by buying the Sunforger (Flame resistant) Canvas I didnt expose myself as being to soft. My alter ego Pierre Aloyouis DeMonde uses it a lot


I am trying to understand how someone can say that if you aren't here for the "real deal", what ever that is, then you should join the GSA, which I will take as the Girl Scouts. So, if you dont camp the way someone deems proper, then the best argument is to call the other person a "girly man" or associate them with being females? And when your target responds, appropriately I beleive, you claim not to be "arrogant"?


So, if only able bodied persons who can camp acording to the "right way", are to be scouts, then what do I do with the two kids in the troop I serve who have MS and use walkers and at times electric carts? Do we need to shelter them in a cabin somwhere because when B-P started Boy scouts he obviously only wanted normal kids to camp. The handicapped need not apply.


I will add that to the definition of "real deal" scouting.

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As usual several of you have twisted things around with text bites trying to make a case that does not exist..


My basic point is simple (many in the current generation of Scouters is softening the outdoor experience/method so much that it is highly questionable as an outdoor experience anymore) and if you don't agree, then fine.. I don't expect that you must agree.


But if you do disagree, it would seem sensible to support your argument with a logical rationale and maybe some sort of underlying principles to which you subscribe in your position.


I now have been unfairly accused of many things - including being insensitive to disabled Scouters/Scouts - Another wonderful tactic often used by liberals and other truth-twisters. I.e "If you have no basis to argue rationally, look for a way to smear the other guy - using any small chunk of his comment as you can."


Still while you all have hurled insults and attemtped to make me appear differently than the real intent of my comments, you still have not come up with any valid basis for a position that says we should make the outdoors as easy as possible for Scouts - including electricity in camps.. One is a thousand types of exceptions don't make a case..


You refer to me as the intolerant one, yet it is you who are intolerant - expecting me to blindly agree with your unsubstantiated and unfounded positions and if I don't, I am cast out as intolerant and old fashioned and other such arbitrary accusations.


If it hurts you that I refer to the Girl Scouts (incorrectly stated as the GSA), then get over it. It's commonly understoodt that girl-based activites are softer (not always of course)- but generally so.. Another good trigger for some of you to go on some anti-manhood feminazi rant. My point with this comment is also rooted in other non-canvas tent related topics that are covered well enough in threads started by a guy named 'Pappy' some time ago.


How did canvas tents turn into this? I started the 'canvas tents' topic because

1) I am truly interested in the topic and want to see what others may have to write about it,

2) I wanted to test a discussion about something related to a traditional Scouting topic to see the effect - and without much waiting the concept was attacked and dimissed without any decent presentation of a position on the matter.. A defense of the canvas tent idea was dismissed arbitarily or by citing non-applicable exceptions or by unfounded accusations.


All of this leads to : This proves to me that this forum (while having a few useful nuggets here and there) is mostly a place for a group of liberal revisionist Scouters to build their own circular consensus that what they are advocate doing to Scouting is justified and in the best interest of Scouting - no matter the topic or controversy, you seek to stand on the smearing of the person with a strong sound argument and use meaningless insults of intolerance and such.. Any humorous jab or politically incorrect comment is treated as serious business used to trump up an attack, while the real serious questions get silly little typical liberal style answers..


I come and go in this forum - mostly because of available time.. I always come back with "Ok - one more chance" in mind, but without any shred of a thought of arbitrarily caving on principle into whimsical ideas of the Obama-like crowd that lives here.


No more.. I'm done wasting my time with lib Scouters. And I am ever more determined to advocate Traditional Scouting and the fundamentals of the real original movement.


This forum is a "Matrix" style tarpit for anyone who thinks they are surfing into a worthwhile and meaningful discussion of Scouting.. Armchair-bound non-Scouters is the "real deal" at this address. I leave you all to your virtual non-scouting that you have conjured.


Nessmuk is headed for the hills. "Struggle on!" NonScouter.com forum.



For brick and mortar breed filth and crime,

With a pulse of evil that throbs and beats;

And men are withered before their prime

By the curse paved in with the lanes and streets.


And lungs are poisoned and shoulders bowed,

In the smothering reek of mill and mine;

And death stalks in on the struggling crowd-

But he shuns the shadow of oak and pine.


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