Why no Tarps

[ntrog8r 19]

The link Oak Tree provides (http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/philmont_redux_returning_scout_report.html) offers this: "Philmont requires that each crew take a dining fly and offers to supply a 12 x 12-foot tarp and poles. The crew is expected to bring its own guy lines. Packs and other gear are stored under the fly at night, and the fly serves as a kitchen or group refuge in inclement weather. Interestingly, Philmont will not let Scouts sleep under this or any other tarp. A tent is required. I dont know whether this requirement is related to bear safety or privacy issues." Which leaves the question open.

 

Looking at the Philmont website (http://philmontscoutranch.org/), offers an answer, I think. They have a page about Health and Safety (http://philmontscoutranch.org/Camping/TrekPlanning/Safety.aspx) that answers the question about hantavirus, Yes they do have it. In the notes "Protection From Hantavirus" it says, "If possible, do not sleep on the bare ground. Use tents with floors."

 

The "Use tents with floors." seems to address the difficult of telling the difference between a tarp and a tent. Though someone out there may be ready to make a case against it.

 

But I am curious if there is anything else related to this - mud when it rains, dust when its hot, privacy, vermin barrier, etc. Has anyone been to Philmont and asked them about this rule? My last trek was 2005 and I don't remember this being a an issue - but then we didn't plan on using tarps for sleeping. I'll try to call this week and see if I can get any other information.

[ntrog8r 19]

Just got off the phone with Jim, Camping Services, at Philmont.

 

The policy of no tarps for sleeping is weather based more than hantavirus. Hantavirus is more of a concern in the base camps and cabins, where people tend to be for longer periods. Tents with floors are required PRIMARILY for protection from rain, mud, etc during the rains.

 

 

Hope this helps with the original questions.

[Buffalo Skipper 13]

It does, sort of. I would presume that a scout who was camping with a tarp and ground cloth would have an advanced skill set. As such, he would have enough knowledge and experience to choose a better site, one that was less prone to flooding. But that is just me.

 

It does not, however, answer the smart remark I made about a hammock (yes, I know it was a smart remark, and not exactly on topic, but easily related). Proper hammock camping is significantly more LNT than a tent could ever be. With the proper setup, it will have less impact on a tree or its bark than a clothesline. It is also lighter, much more flexible and tremendously more comfortable. I can pitch my tent over ground at 45 angle, over rocks, roots and even over a stream (if the trees are right) or in a swamp. So long as I am below the tree line, and not in the open desert, I can find a place to hang. When I cannot, my hammock becomes a convenient bivy with a very good covering. I have never gotten even the slightest bit wet in my hammock. I have camped in temperatures from 21 - 80 and never been too cold or too warm. I cannot imagine that Philmont has a valid excuse for banning a hammock which has absolutely no basis in fact.

 

Sorry I had to vent about this. My camping and backpacking has improved immeasurably since I left the ground began hanging. I have not slept on the ground or in a cot at a boy scout function since September, I hope I never have to sleep on the ground again. Probably won't go to Philmont for that reason alone.

[Eagledad 2779]

Philmont does not allow hammocks hung from trees. Been there and done that.

 

Barry

[sbemis1 14]

You also can't use a bivy style tent at Philmont, as I recall.

 

[SSScout 1615]

My how the times do change...

 

When I first joined my Troop back in '59 (!), the Big Boys had just come back from Philmont. So dad and I looked at what they had used and collected my gear accordingly. M4 plywood surplus pack frame. Yucca pack. AL cook kit.

And the tents were MADE by the Troop in Mr. Coombs' basement: 6 mil black plastic sheet, cut in 10 x 10 foot squares, edges reinforced with Mil spec duct tape, grommets every 2 feet, and THAT's what they took to Philmont and slept ON and UNDER. And what we used for all purpose camping for a long time. When our Troop established a long term summer camp, we went out and (by Patrol) bought Baker and Camper style canvas tents. They served very well for many years. I remember selling mine to another Scout for $10.

I still have (and still use! ) the canvas BSA tarp.

But I must admit, it is nice to not have to swat at mosquitos at night...

[Basementdweller 608]

Sorry for the long delay.....Just back from my second week at summer camp.....one more to go.

 

That is ridiculous if it is just for weather protection. Again BSA regulating common sense.

 

Just like Packsaddle I have significant experience in the outdoors and many thousand miles under boot. I find this silly. I have worked to get my pack weights down as I age.... Lets me keep up with the youngsters. They are going to force me to carry a thirty pound pack....I am not going to be happy.

 

 

I would not carry a tarp tent....from Henry shire.......Too expensive and small for the weight......I have a couple of silnylon tarps.......one is for my hammock and it has doors too, well they don't zip.

[alancar 10]

Man the dust at Philmont is crazy bad you might want a tent (Phimont Blue backpacker tents were great) Plus you can split the poles fly groundcloth stakes and body up) we had a blow with rain and everything was coated with 1/32 of an inch of dirt at Dan Beard last week. pray for rain.