BrentAllen 10 Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 nld, Add in the fact that the victim apparently had very little to eat (1 granola/fruit/energy bar) over that time period. He was carrying much more. No food, lots of water - starts to sound like hyponatremia, or some other underlying issue with the boy. That was a long time on the trail for 15 miles. Link to post Share on other sites
clemlaw 55 Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 >>>>starts to sound like hyponatremia Link to post Share on other sites
perdidochas 658 Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 NLD, Did you look at the picture of the boy in news accounts? Hardly was he just muscle. People who are just muscle don't have the makings of a double chin. http://www.naplesnews.com/photos/2009/may/11/103216/ Link to post Share on other sites
Gunny2862 11 Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 From the National Park Service Incident record the Father told the Park Service that his son had just completed a physical was 5'6" and 210 lbs "of solid muscle". http://media.naplesnews.com/media/static/Park_Service_Report.pdf(This message has been edited by Gunny2862) Link to post Share on other sites
perdidochas 658 Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 The facebook picture from two weeks before the incident don't show somebody that is "solid muscle." Link to post Share on other sites
moosetracker 132 Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Not to be mean, but the nightline story showed the parents.. They were not too physically fit.. Sometimes it is hard to judge what is physically fit, if your whole family is out of shape.. Their term for physically fit, may not be your term for it.. (in other words delusional).. Link to post Share on other sites
Beavah 205 Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Yah, I noticed da father's comments (among a bunch of other random comments by the dad) and just wrote it off to being a father's comments. If this is true, then would it have made the difference to replace some of the water with gatorade Yah, sure, a little. Even Gatorade is hypotonic (less sodium content than your blood). Yeh can't make an isotonic (same sodium content) drink without it tastin' awful. So you need to be eating as well as drinking. The woman who died of hyponatremia in da Boston Marathon did so while drinkin' lots of Gatorade. That's especially true if yeh haven't acclimatized to exertion in the heat. One of the body's major adaptations to hot environments is to significantly reduce the amount of sodium and other electrolytes you sweat out. That can matter especially to an overweight or bigger fellow who is apt to sweat a lot. But like I said, it takes 8 or more days of at least a few hours of exercise in the heat for that adjustment to happen. If the lad also skipped breakfast... One of da interestin' symptoms listed for hyponatremia is loss of appetite. I think it also is interestin' that the food he had was all granola bars (he ate only one). Granola bars are pretty low in sodium IIRC. A big can of Pringles might have been a wiser choice, with some other real food. All this is just speculation, of course. I'd be curious what all our medical pros think. B (This message has been edited by Beavah) Link to post Share on other sites
CalicoPenn 729 Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Without an autopsy, any cause of death is purely speculative. Yeah, it could have been heat stroke. Yeah, it could have been hyponatremia (though a colleague in my office - an MD who volunteers at the Chicago Marathon - suggests that it's unlikely unless the lad already had a sodium deficiency - Vol is probably better versed on it than any of us). It could have been caused by water intoxication (maybe 1 1/2 gallons of water was too much - or he drank most of it in one sitting). It could have been caused by a bee sting he didn't feel causing an allergic reaction that in turn caused a respiratory failure. It could have been an undiagnosed heart condition (it's not unusual after reading reports about high school athletes collapsing during practice or a game to learn later that there was an undiagnosed heart valve problem). It could have been anything. We're just not going to know. Link to post Share on other sites
nldscout 18 Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Where does it say he only had 1 ganola bar? It said they only found one empty wrapper. No one knows what he had eaten and then disposed of the wrappers in a trash recepticle at the place they stopped for lunch. I notice also that the parents have no qualms about accepting the posthoumous Eagle award, which by the way I have never heard of. The only thing I have ever heard was the spirit of eagle. Link to post Share on other sites
acco40 95 Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 I'm right between 5'6" and 5'7". For my Double H trek, I had to lose 10 lbs to get down to the 199 lb limit for high adventure (I'm not overweight, I just need to grow a little). Doesn't matter if I was a tub of goo or solid muscle. The BSA did not have a BMI or % body fat requirement, they had a weight for height requirement. A 5'6" 215 lb adult or Scout should not partake in backpacking in a BSA event - period. At summer camp one year I was real busy with merit badge paperwork and all the other activities a Scoutmaster and volunteer camp Commissioner has. On the last full day, our troop performed a service project for the camp. It was hot. So that afternoon, my youngest son, whom I had not had much time to spend with ask me to go swimming with him in the lake. We did. After an hour or so I got out and "youth" Scouter (probably a 18 or 19 year old staff person) who knew me and my position in our troop asked me, while looking me right in the eye, if anyone from troop XX was at the waterfront. I said yes (later he told me they are not supposed to state names on the radio or publically) and he told me I had to get to my camp site ASAP. What awaits me there I thought to myself. Did I forget to sign a MB card? Did some boy have an accident? I was about a mile walk away so off I went on a brisk walk. Well at about 200 yds away I can see a crowd at the camp site. At 100 yds I see an ambulance! Oh no, what Scout got hurt? Well, it wasn't a Scout, it was one of my SAs. He was overweight, drinking Mountain Dew all day, on anti-biotics, ... He had classic heat stroke. He is usually a jovial fellow and his mood changed. He felt nauseated. His fellow SAs took him to the showers and ran cold water on him. He vomited in the shower. They walked him back to camp, put him in a chair in the shade with a wet cold towel around his neck. They did everything (except pump him full of fluids!). Right after I got there the ambulance took him away and after a few hours in an air conditioned hospital and having fluids (via an IV) put in - he was as good as new. Moral of the story - I was very, very concerned about dehydration, heat stroke/exhaustion, etc. for the Scout all week. Made them take water everywhere. Kept a close eye on them, etc. What I didn't think I needed to do was the same for the adults. Live and learn.(This message has been edited by acco40) Link to post Share on other sites
The Blancmange 67 Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 A 5'6" 215 lb adult or Scout should not partake in backpacking in a BSA event - period. Be careful with absolutes. I doubt Maurice Drew-Jones would have too much trouble on a backpacking trip. (Although he's listed at 5'7" and 210#, all of his college stats show him as 5'6." Doubtful that he grew an inch after graduating college). For anyone other than an elite athlete, you're probably right. I'm 6' and dropped from 245 to 230 (incidentally just under the BSA limit), and there is a noticable difference in what I am able to do without getting winded. Link to post Share on other sites
BrentAllen 10 Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 nld, The SM said the boys weren't eating anything, didn't eat when they stopped for lunch. Add that to the fact that there was only one wrapper. I doubt there was a trash can at the remote camp site where they stopped at lunch time. Link to post Share on other sites
nolesrule 58 Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 "I doubt Maurice Drew-Jones would have too much trouble on a backpacking trip. (Although he's listed at 5'7" and 210#, all of his college stats show him as 5'6." Doubtful that he grew an inch after graduating college). " More often than not, the "official" height and weight stats for professional athletes as listed on rosters are inflated. Link to post Share on other sites
Pack212Scouter 10 Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Ok...5'6" and 210# is not exactly fit. Fit enough for moderate activities, yes, but I would question, or at least keep a very close watch on someone like that on a hike such as this. Philmont would never allow him to go out to the best of my knowledge. For instance, I am 5'6" and 195. I am reasonably fit, but definitely a good 10-15# overweight; and hardly a specimin of muscle. It's hard to tell from pictures, but my guess is that this young lad was a every bit of 210#, if not more. Link to post Share on other sites
OldGreyEagle 5 Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Maybe Maurice Jones Drew could be on the hike, but his decision making ability regarding assesing injuries long distance certainly could use some sharpening Link to post Share on other sites
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