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Engineer61

Campout and Oversleeping

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I found out that in our troop, in general, the youngest Scouts got up the earliest. They had not yet entered into the glorious teen years where one's body clock shift a minimum of two hours forward. We had many a campout where half the Scouts were up with no youth leadership up.

 

The one and only time I purposely violated the G2SS was when my two sons (one the SPL), their friend (ASPL who knew me really well) and another Scout who I had been den leader and Scoutmaster to for over 10 years were still all asleep in their platform tent, the whole rest of the troop were up, had eaten and cleaned up for breakfast. It was around 9:00 AM or so (been daylight for over four hours) and I simply told the other adults my intentions. I walked into the tent carrying the adult patrol cookware and once inside stated banging on the pots and pans with large metal spoons. They got the message.

 

As Scoutmaster, I always had a heart to heart talk with the SPL on outings. I let the youth pick the "go to bed" time and the "when to get up time" with the caveat that whatever they decide I was going to hold them to it. For the most part that worked out well.

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I don't think you violated any G2SS rule acco. I've done that in the past myself. I prefer the boys dropping the tent on the Rip Van Winkles.

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Oversleeping is a choice. The Scout making that choice may/should be aware of the results of that choice like any other choice.

 

I don't think any extraordinary measures should be taken other than reasonably announcing "Last call" outside the tent.

 

The tent may or may not be the property of the Troop or the responsibility of the Patrol. Extremely loud sound (bull horn blasting reveille next to his ear) or dropping or messing with a tent is not very Scout-like and could result in damage, and who is responsible for that? If I was the late sleeper, and a tent got dropped on me I would NOT pay for any damage or accept responsibility for it. And after my military experience, reveille blasted next to my ear, may get an un-Scout-like physical response.

 

If the late sleeper does not have a leadership related position to the outing or is not assigned for breakfast prep (to include dishes/cooking/prep), the only result is going without Camp/Patrol prepared hot food. Who knows, maybe he has medical reason or was assigned late night activity via the SM and excused for morning activity.

 

But after confirming (at least with the SPL/SM) sleeping late is not a result of assigned late-night duty or extraordinary circumstance.....

 

And if the scout is needed for breakfast (dishes/cooking/prep/camp break down) and chooses to skip his job responsibilities, the SPL/(and any portion of the PLC) IMO has some suggested ways that don't involve hazing or potential personal/property damage:

 

#1 - SM counsel him that the behavior is not acceptable... and work out the issue, as well as going without the Patrol prepared hot food..

#2 - Have the SPL/PLC remove him from his POR as well as going without the Patrol prepared hot food.

#2 - Go ahead and have breakfast, but the entire Patrol is excused from camp cleanup, break-down and the Scout must do it by himself as well as going without the Patrol prepared hot food. Object lesson - you are not a Patrol of 1.

 

(This message has been edited by dg98adams)

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Not very Scout-like? Sleeping in and letting the rest of your patrol or troop down is Scout-like?

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dg98adams, I agree with you. Dropping a tent on a sleeping scout teaches others that they can mess around with another's property if they have "just cause". And somehow, I dont think this is a good thing

 

Having said that,the sleeper does need to face consequences of his action, or inaction as the case may be. Lots of things can be done that does not involve touching another's property

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Getting to bed late shouldn't cause a problem with oversleeping at all. In my old ship we had night watch for at least an hour a night every night, and the entire ship was frequently up till 11 or 12, later at some events. In my current ship we just went to a regatta this past weekend, there was a bunch of us up until 12, 1 am, some even later. When I went to bed at 0045 there was a group of adults still up chatting on the docks. I managed to get up at 0530, and everyone else got up between then and 0645 no problem.

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I disagree with SctDad about keeping non-perishable food on hand, If the scout didn't wake up, he's out of luck. The message here is "why get up, I can sleeep and still eat, I don't even have to cook or clean... SWEET!"

 

If he can get up for school, he can get up on a campout.

 

Loud noises or banging pots and pans is OK, but I don't like dropping tents, especially nowadays, some are really expensive.

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I also disagree with dropping tents, but for other reasons. Let's just say it was a "couple" of reasons. Now if the owner of the tent is OK with it being dropped, then OK.

 

I also think that pots and pans are good so is noise, just not too close to the eardrums please.

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We have a saying in the troop: Wake up, packup, eatup, cleanup, ruckup.

 

Last campout the SPL,ASPL and and a PL overlsept as did a couple of cooks. (the first three were in the same tent/tarp) The cooks were the responsibiliy of the patrols to get up. (with help to get the cooks gear packed in time to ruckup). The rest were mine to sing them into wakefullness. In the troop that I serve that is seen as a bad thing. ;(

 

I will not go into what as is part of my 'singing',(I do a pretty reseanable good morning sunshine) with the tent/tarp losing their location in enjoyment. It only takes once to teach them (not the stakes) and those to come up to those positions to happen only once (with reminders). The scouts say that I cannot sing and need a bucket to carry a tune. No bucket has ever complained. ;)

 

Seriously, a life leason in responibility.

 

Had a Eagle Board this weekend with one of the members not a scouter and was told afterwards that he had not realized that every thing scouting does has a life lesson and message. Humbling.

 

yis

 

 

 

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I follow the same line as Red. I start off whistling and move to singing in the morning. That usually is enough to wake the dead. The last campout we had a bunch of new scouts waiting to cook breakfast because their PL was still asleep. I just reminded them that they don't need to wait till everyone is awake to get started. They did rouse the late sleep in time for eating and he did clean up.

 

Usually our timetables aren't so rigid. But if too many decide to move slower in the morning, it just cuts into their free time later.

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I have to disagree with the notion of keeping non-perishable items on hand for those that sleep late and miss breakfast. What kind of message does that send? No big deal - sleep as late as you want - we have your back. Yeah sure, just watch as others decide they don't need to wake up on time either.

 

We've had Scouts over the years that were clearly not morning people. I've had parents question why the Scouts wake up so early on a campout. You know, it's the weekend after all. Over time and because of consequences like missing a meal or missing out on an activity because the guys were late getting started or took too long cleaning up, we don't have a problem with the oversleeping much anymore.

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Just to clear up some tings about my reserve non-perisabe food.

 

This is what we do at our Cub Scout Pack. Younger kids are at the mercy of their parents. Our troop does not have that. They just chose to eat poptarts on sunday.

 

Now the oatmeal and granola that we have on hand is not the prefered kind. But it is available.

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SctDad, even on a pack campout I would not provide additional food. Either parent/son gets up at the appointed time or they miss a meal. Its now up to parent to listen to their son complane because he is hungry or provide themselves something to eat, not out of the pack food stuff either.

 

As for older scouts, get up on time or miss out.

 

I guarantee that if a boy has to go hungry for awhile he will get up the next time if its important to him.

 

Remember, No Scout has ever starved to death on an overnight campout.

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I'm in the no extra food group. At our pre-summer camp parents meeting we asked the parents not to send any extra food with their sons. We explained they will receive three meals per day as part of their camp fee. We also told them there is a store where the boys can buy snacks providing they eat breakfast, lunch and dinner. If they didn't no snacks.

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