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upnorthmn

2010 Scout Weight Restrictions

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I don't think it will be harder once the new weight limits kick in nation wide. The heavy set generally know their limitations. I think the problem will be with the guys who are perfectly fit and all muscle and bone, and neither they nor the BMI isn't prepared to take that into account.

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The weight evaluation is based on height not BMI. Weight restrictions have been in place for years at Philmont. They make it sound as if it just started today. Maybe they just started enforcing it.

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732,

If you read the fine print on the form the H/W restrictions are not only for HA activities, but for ANY activity where;

 

 

It is important to note that the height/weight chart must be strictly adhered to if the event will take the unit

beyond a radius wherein emergency evacuation is more than 30 minutes by ground transportation, such as

backpacking trips, high-adventure activities, and conservation projects in remote areas.

 

and also later on the form

 

Individuals desiring to participate in any high-adventure activity or events in which emergency evacuation would take longer

than 30 minutes by ground transportation will not be permitted to do so if they exceed the weight limit as documented at the

bottom of this page. Enforcing the height/weight limit is strongly encouraged for all other events, but it is not mandatory.

 

So by these guidelines if you are on a simple overnite camping trip and you do not meet H/W guidelines, you cannot go. Some units out west that have meetings in churches and what not that are more than 30 minutes from a hospital can no longer use leaders that do not meet H/W Guidelines. Also the legalese is an issue in that what constitutes the 30 minutes, from the location of the accident, or the location of the evacuation point? and the

 

Enforcing the height/weight limit is strongly encouraged for all other events, but it is not mandatory.

 

is also a legal can of worms IMHO.

 

This has been a big topic on the health and Safety group on MyScouting.

 

Forgot, guess what falls in the HA activity according to the national guy in the group mentioned above: OA Ordeals!(This message has been edited by eagle92)

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The height/weight standards have caused a lot of confusion due to the poor wording. Most of us initially interpreted it the same as Eagle92 as meaning 30 minutes to a hospital. What it really means is 30 minutes to an "accessible roadway, fire lane, camp road etc." The FAQ now has this information.

 

http://www.scouting.org/HealthandSafety/Resources/MedicalFormFAQs.aspx

 

Note that H/W standard does not apply to the Jamboree though they suggest that it should be a consideration in determining overall risk.

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A timely thread - I just got back from my physical, and I'm 2 lbs. over max. And I could be one of those borderline cases without enough fat to lose in order to make the cut. What's a guy to do?

 

I can't understand the height/weight restrictions as they relate to medical evacuations. Medevac helicopters, for example, generally have a max patient height and a max weight, but they are independent and based on the aircraft design. Moving a downed hiker in most cases is similarly dependent on max weight.

 

I think national had the right intent here, but didn't think this one all the way through.

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I had my physical Friday. The MD and his Resident shook their heads. The resident was an athlete and judging by looks was very fit, said he did not meet his weight and height.

 

The good news, other than being fat is I am healthy as a horse. The Doc asked what I would like him to do about the check box on the top that says something about meeting the chart figures. I laughed and told him to check the on I fit.

 

I understand the need for a chart, but please, I am just going to resident camp with the boys not Philmont or high adventure.

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If you are only going to resident camp then the weight chart probably does not apply. From the FAQ's:

 

"Q. When does the height/weight chart apply? We have differing opinions in our unit/district.

A. When the Annual Health and Medical Record goes into effect, the height/weight chart will apply in the following known adventure activities:

 

When your travels take you more than 30 minutes off of an accessible roadway, fire lane, camp road, etc., where you float, walk, hike, bike, or otherwise go into the backcountry. Depending on the terrain and local conditions, this might be a couple hundred yards or a couple of miles into the backcountry.

Most BSA high-adventure camps that include a backcountry component (ask them about their requirements before you go). Philmont Scout Ranch has this standard in place as an example.

When your lodge, unit, district, or council requires it as part of a program.

The height/weight chart generally would not apply (unless your lodge, unit, district, or council says it does) in the following:

 

The majority of BSA resident camps, as most Cub Scout/Boy Scout resident camps (not high-adventure camps) have drive-up campsites and dont require packing in or out.

Cub Scout programs. (Backcountry and high-adventure are not age-appropriate for Cub Scouting/)

Wood Badge courses in a typical resident camp setting. Again, Philmont Scout Ranch has this requirement in place.

The 2010 National Scout Jamboree. (However, please review the Be Prepared link to review all medical risk factors, including excessive body weight.) "

 

You should be good to go.

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Hal,

What the FAQs say and what the actual form says do not coincide. The form says nothing about

 

When your travels take you more than 30 minutes off of an accessible roadway, fire lane, camp road, etc., where you float, walk, hike, bike, or otherwise go into the backcountry. Depending on the terrain and local conditions, this might be a couple hundred yards or a couple of miles into the backcountry.

Most BSA high-adventure camps that include a backcountry component (ask them about their requirements before you go). Philmont Scout Ranch has this standard in place as an example.

When your lodge, unit, district, or council requires it as part of a program.

The height/weight chart generally would not apply (unless your lodge, unit, district, or council says it does) in the following:

 

The majority of BSA resident camps, as most Cub Scout/Boy Scout resident camps (not high-adventure camps) have drive-up campsites and dont require packing in or out.

Cub Scout programs. (Backcountry and high-adventure are not age-appropriate for Cub Scouting/)

Wood Badge courses in a typical resident camp setting. Again, Philmont Scout Ranch has this requirement in place.

The 2010 National Scout Jamboree. (However, please review the Be Prepared link to review all medical risk factors, including excessive body weight.) "

 

THE FORM SAYS THE FOLLOWING

 

It is important to note that the height/weight chart must be strictly adhered to if the event will take the unit

beyond a radius wherein emergency evacuation is more than 30 minutes by ground transportation, such as

backpacking trips, high-adventure activities, and conservation projects in remote areas.

 

AND LATER

Individuals desiring to participate in any high-adventure activity or events in which emergency evacuation would take longer

than 30 minutes by ground transportation will not be permitted to do so if they exceed the weight limit as documented at the

bottom of this page. Enforcing the height/weight limit is strongly encouraged for all other events, but it is not mandatory.

(For healthy height/weight guidelines, visit www.cdc.gov.)

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You're right that the form does not say what the FAQ says it means. I suggest that everyone should take a copy of the the FAQ to their physical so that the doctor will understand the intent. I hope that BSA will revise the form to clarify what they mean by "ground transportation" and any thing else that is not clear or is just plain wrong.

 

 

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I still have a bad feeling about what is coming. The new form is already being used for NOAC this summer. I was told by the adult adviser that unless I 'made weight' that I would not be able to attend. (This event is held at a college dorm to boot.)

 

I compete as a powerlifter. I am using barbells in excess of 500 pounds twice a week. I also bike, swim and walk regularly. I swam the mile in 31 min last summer at camp. I have no health issues. Despite being over their limit, I think I am in pretty good condition.

 

Despite the fact that I may only be a few pounds over, I would not gamble the fees for a major scouting event that I would make weight at the event. I may measure an inch shorter and or the scales may read a few pounds different than mine, so it would seem that I would need to be quite a few pounds below in order to be safe. My training is going well and I do not want to jeopardize it by probably having to loose some of the muscle that I worked hard for just to make a number.

 

While I am fairly certain that our council will not implement these tables for summer camp next year unless they are required to, I still fear this may be my last summer at camp.

 

 

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OK, talked to the employee health nurses today who manage the weight lose program at work. Basically they said that H/W guidelines from CDC are just that GUIDELINES. They stated that there are ways to get a more accurate BMI, including the electric pulse scale they use. Apparently this scale send a small charge through the body and can measure the BMI more accurately than any H/W guideline.

 

the 30 minute rule will cost us alot of volunteers. Heck it may even cost us a few professionals.

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If you accept that the 30 minute rule is based on a litter carry out of the woods, I have no issues with the restrictions. Think how difficult it would be to carry a 300lbs man 5 miles, no matter his personal fitness level. This isn't all about the overweight fellow, its about all the other guys who have to haul his butt out.

 

Get in shape folks. We promote physical fitness. We should lead by example.

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Gern,

Probelm is that it doesn't state 30 minutes by litter, it says 30 minutes by ground transportation. What's ground transportation? A car is ground transportation. So is an ambulance.

 

Like I said the form is not very well written.

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According to the FAQ the thirty minute rule means to an accessible road, fire road etc, so it means litter carry. The form does not say what it means. I can draw one of two conclusions.

 

1. BSA is based in Texas and Texans have a problem constructing sentences in standard English. Are former president was evidence of that.

 

2. They originally meant it the way many have interpreted it (30 minutes to an ER) and have now realized how dumb that was. Rather than admit their error they are now claiming that a more reasonable policy was what they meant all along.

 

I would would go with conclusion #2 but neither speaks well of the folks at national.

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