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fleetfootedfox

Adults staying up nearly all night

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When compared against the ideal man as the scout law would suppose all in scouting are striving for, the ideal man does not stay up all hours of the night yammering away at the campfire. You want adult bonding join the Elks. Otherwise early to bed early to rise these a virtuous habits which should be encouraged at an early age.

 

 

 

 

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I am not so sure we should be telling adults when they should sleep as much as we want adults who are courteous, and modeling the scout Law (I saw that already and wanted to reiterate.

 

I dont care if you want to talk til dawn, just don't keep me up with your noise and I will promise to be 300 feet from your campfire. I think we can all agree to that

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When compared against the ideal man as the scout law would suppose all in scouting are striving for, the ideal man does not stay up all hours of the night yammering away at the campfire. You want adult bonding join the Elks. Otherwise early to bed early to rise these a virtuous habits which should be encouraged at an early age.

 

What! No bonding around the campfire! Even if there is pie?

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This is one of those interesting little topics where I unexpectedly learn something new about folks on this forum I hadn't realized before.

 

Adult run has a whole new meaning.

 

Barry

 

 

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"Is the SM really that loud, or are your tents really that close to the fire?"

 

Yes. They are really that loud. Their laughter can be heard several hundred yards away echoing off the hills.

 

"My suggestions. Use ear plugs. If a boy has a problem in the middle of the night....you already have several adults still up, so why should you be sweating it?"

 

I have tried that, but as I said they are not comfortable and they block all noise, which could be a safety issue. If there is some sort of emergency going on, I don't want to be sleeping through it. I guess I will end up taking the risk and letting them deal with any emergencies. Still not sure what to do if the plugs start hurting my ears and I take them out to find these guys still awake making lots of noise. Believe it or not, I have tried having one in my right ear and lay on my left side and then switch later.

 

"Why are you attending the camp outs?"

 

I am an ASM and at this camp-out I was also in my role as Webelos den leader with Webelos in camp.

 

"Do you bring some particular skill to the group that nobody else has? Are you the only one with a trailer hitch to pull the troop trailer?"

 

If I were the only one with a trailer hitch, I could still drop off the trailer and leave. However, I am a trained leader, including Wood Badge, and I am one of the few who goes to Roundtable regularly. Yeah, I could try staying home, and if I tell the SM it's because they are too loud that would be another way to make my point.

 

 

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"Da PL, not you, should be the one respondin' to any youth issues in the middle of the night."

 

If a webelos scout wakes up crying for mommy or wets his bed, you are going to say the PL deals with that? Interesting solution.

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OK, Mr ASM. You work for the SM in his role as the program guy. Your options:

 

1) Have a quiet cup of coffee with him offsite from a Scouting activity. Explain your position.

 

2) Resign your ASM position, go to the Committee, and lay it down on the SM when he gives his monthly report. You must ask yourself "Is this Courteous?"

 

3) Resign your Troop positions, and let it be known there is NWIH your troop will sniff those Webelos. You must ask yourself "Is this Brave?"

 

4) Find a way to personally deal with.

 

Feedback is a gift I hope you can tell I'm urging you to have a quiet conversation offsite with the SM.

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Interesting topic. I don't think it was intended to be a discussion on boy-run vs. adult-run, but there is that aspect. Of course, the adults are there for more than just safety. Adult association is one of the methods of scouting. "Adults provide the living example to Scouts of the ideals of Scouting."

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"Yeah, I could try staying home, and if I tell the SM it's because they are too loud that would be another way to make my point. "

 

Yup, that was my point, if talking to the SM simply has not worked. It isn't a question of training or anything like that. It is more a question of knowing what your limits are, and knowing what you can/can't change. If you can't get the SM to change his behavior then you have to decide whether it is worth your aggravation to put up with it. If the answer is "no" then don't go! Evidently you generally aren't in a position where if you don't go, the whole thing comes crashing to a halt. You are under no obligations to spend sleepless nights being annoyed by people with bad manners.

 

By the way I do believe you only mentioned that you were in attendance as a Webelos Den Leader in your most recent posts. (It's rough to criticize others for not factoring that in to their responses when you hadn't previously mentioned it!)

 

That changes the dynamic and I can certainly see why you were there in that capacity, but I'm betting that the Webelos don't camp with the troop all that often. And I hope your webelos had other adults in attendance with them. Perhaps you can use that opportunity to provide more feedback to the SM, along the lines of "Yup, the boys really liked the troop but you know, their parents were not too happy about all the noise all night long. I know we've talked about it before but you should know, Mr. SM, that this might cause some of those webelos to join a different troop." Assuming, of course, that this is true.

 

Anyway I think John-in-KC has pretty well laid out your options. At this point it is a matter of what you feel comfortable choosing to do.

 

 

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fleetfootedfox -

 

This is a sad situation. The SM sounds like a real bully. Like others here, I suggest you look for another Troop. Clearly he has a gang of followers who like to stay up with him and party - no way they're gonna stop their fun just 'cause the other leaders and Scouts need to sleep. Is there a bottle being passed around? It sounds like it.

 

But direct confrontation? Forget it - he's too far gone. Sounds like this guy is completely full of himself. Writing a letter 'cause someone got going at 5 after he was up 'till 3 making noise? Completely out of line.

 

Find another Troop.

 

We head for bed around 10 or 10:30, with few older Scouts and adults staying up to watch the embers and talk quietly. I never hear them, and they head for their tents 11 or 12 latest.

 

We come across a Troop like yours every so often at a camporee. No consideration for anyone else - yelling and making noise well after midnight. To me, they have missed one of the key parts of the Scout Law - a Scout is courteous.

 

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BSA Outdoor Code:

"As an American, I will do my best to -

Be clean in my outdoor manners

Be careful with fire

Be considerate in the outdoors, and

Be conservation minded. "

 

Seems these leaders need to brush up on the basics of scouting and follow the code.

How about asking them if they can recite it?

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Huh? If they are too loud, ask them to please be quieter. What does this have to do with the Outdoor Code?

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Interesting. And you found that where? Or is that your interpretation?

 

Be considerate in the outdoors.

I will treat public and private property with respect.

I will use low-impact methods of hiking and camping.

 

The Outdoor Code deals with how we treat nature not each other.

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