Lots of Life

[yarrow 10]

I am in the process of registering out troop again for this year and have noticed, while updated the rank of each scout, that we have an unusual number of Life Scouts. We have 61 scouts and 31 are Life. An additional 5 are Eagles. Granted some of the life scouts are young, and we seem to have an active and interesting program, but I am begining to wonder if this might be a sign of a dying troop. The only place most of these boys can go is Eagle and not many generally do that. Are these percentages typical?

[jethehiker 10]

yarrow

Did they all x-over around the sametime, if so I would say its ok , if there is a good amount of time between x-over groups you might want to look at the older Scouts progress towards eagle . Do u do any high adventure for them, I know some scouts who just hung around for the Activities , nothing wrong with that . however if its what they want maybe you can suggest they join a Venture group. Hope this helps

 

 

YIS

 

jethehiker

[jmcquillan 10]

I don't think it's necessarily a sign that the troop is in trouble. Take stock of the rest of your assets.

 

Are you still getting cross-overs from Webelos each year? How many vs. what other troops are getting in your town? Are they staying?

 

Are the older scouts still quite active? Do they participate in troop activities regularly? Are they having a good time? Do your camping trips end up with littlt participation? Are the kids not interested in the the things that they help plan?

 

The fact that they reach Life and then sit there for a while isn't cause for concern all by itself. I've seen many Scouts in our area do just that, and sit on Life Rank for a year, or two, or three. As long as they are still active, camping, teaching, participating, leading, setting the example...et cetera...the troop is still enjoying the good life. But if they reach Life and sit, and don't camp, and don't participate, and look bored and have little interest in the things the troop does...then that is cause for concern. The rank thing all by itself is just a small thing to watch.

 

I remember a boy who never reached higher than Second Class in our troop. He stayed, and stayed, and camped, and participated, and his experience was invaluable for the younger scouts. He never held an elected leadership position, but he knew how to lead. He also knew how to direct attention to those who were elected. He was quite an astonishing fellow. At 18, he left the troop for college...still Second Class...but told us he wouldn't change a thing. He loved Scouting, but had little interest in the "patches and stuff", as he called it. There are others like that out there.

 

[Chippewa29 13]

I'd hope to have your "problems" down the road. It is definitely not unusual for Scouts that hit Life to slow down on the way to Eagle. My troop has had 12 Eagles in the past 18 years, only two of which earned it before they turn 17 (they were both 16 1/2). All but one of our Eagles earned their Life rank by the age of 14. We've also had two dozen Scouts get to Life but not get their Eagles. I believe there are several reasons for this:

1. High School Activities. Many Scouts are active in high school activities such as sports, student government, band, drama, etc. One of my buddies growing up in the troop got his Life at 13 (about 2 1/2 years after joining). His progress slowed down a little bit at that point. When he got into high school, he got very involved in band and drama, with competition marching band in the fall and musical in the spring taking up a large amount of his time. He would be a part timer during those times and work on his merit badges and such during the summer and winter. He finished his Eagle project the summer before he turned 18 and only had two merit badges to go (two of the easier ones). Of course, marching band took up all his time in the fall and the school decided to move the musical from spring to winter. Neglecting the pleas of his parents and the taunts of his fellow Scouts, he reached his 18th birthday in March of that year still needing just two merit badges for his Eagle. He still kicks himself to this day for not finishing it. At least he had the character to come to a troop meeting a month after he turned 18 and tell the guys not to make the same mistake he did.

2. Other Scout activities. I got my Life in 16 months (minimum time back then) with 16 of my 21 merit badges finished. It took me another 62 months to get my Eagle. What happened? I got inducted into the OA the next month and was elected a chapter officer the next month. I got extremely active in the OA (earning my Vigil almost two years before my Eagle) and count it as the greatest experience of my Scouting life. Other Scouts get into high adventure. Still others realize that earning badges isn't everything and start to focus outward (being a leader in their patrol/troop) instead of on themselves (earning merit badges).

3. As I've stated in other threads, the Eagle award has too much emphasis put on it. People sprout the "only 2% of all Scouts make Eagle" stat as if it were an upcoming storm. The more it is talked about, the more fearsome it seems. Then, when the storm comes, people realize it wasn't as bad as people were making it out to be. Many Scouts are intimidated by the requirements, thinking they will take some gargantuan effort requiring a PhD to complete. Just about every Eagle I've seen over the past dozen or so years has said that earning their Eagle was no where as hard as it was made out to be by themselves and others. The work wasn't that hard. It was just a matter of getting it started and staying consistent. It wasn't any harder than doing the earlier ranks, but the perception made it seem incredibly difficult.

4. Outside influences. As we all know, Scouts are not immune to the influences that other teenagers face. One of my early mentors in Scouts was my first patrol leader, a kid that was a year older than me. To most of us, he was larger than life and would someday conquer the world. He made Life before 13 and had his Eagle project finished when he was 14. Unfortunately, he got in with a bad group of kids and not only didn't finish his Eagle, but got into drugs and never even finished high school. Last I heard, he moved to Texas at 18 to live with a family friend and try to start his life over. I've also seen kids go a little astray when they hit high school, but then get their acts together as they get closer to 18 and finish up their Eagle.

4. Precedent. I was the only one of the 12 original members of my troop to eventually get his Eagle (although six of us made Life). The guys that came in behind me sat at Life as well, probably because they couldn't fathom the possibility of getting their Eagle before me. Also, since I was almost 18 before I got my Eagle, a trend was started that has lasted ever since. I'm still looking for the kid who will get his Eagle at 14 or 15 to break the trend.

 

If you've got 31 kids "stuck" at Life, here are a couple of ways to push them along.

1. Get them in pairs (or threes or fours) so they can work on it together. Getting a "running mate" will help create the peer pressure and support needed to get things done. I've seen cases where five Scouts that went all the way through Cubs together joined a troop and got their Eagles together several years later. They were a team and created a synergistic affect.

2. If you have someone that is a well-respected leader among those Lifes, put the push on him to get it done. Once he passes that barrier, a few others will ride in his wake. Once I got my Eagle, the flood gates opened. Out of the twelve Eagles in my troops history (I was second), seven of them were members of my troop at the time of my Eagle Court of Honor and all of them earned it in the next five years (four in the next two years), not to mention that made Life in that time frame. I was gone to college during that time (thus minimizing the amount I worked with them), and we went through four Scoutmasters in that time frame. However, once they saw it happen, they got inspired.

 

If you can really figure out how to get those kids over the hump, write a book and you'll be able to live off of the royalties. Good Luck.

[buffalo2 14]

Ya know, there's some pretty good ideas here (no surprise) but I'd be thinking about age distribution and maybe thrashing Troopmaster and looking for incremental advancement dates and maybe relating that to program years gone by. What's different?

If you've got lots of older boys (sounds likely) you may wish to consider a Venture Patrol (as opposed to Crew) to keep the interest up and let the younger ones see that they've got a long and active Scouting future ahead of them.

There's a lot to be said for looking ahead - good luck!

[yarrow 10]

Actually we do have two Venture patrols of 12 or more but they tend to be Venture in name only. They don't do anything different except they run discussions at some meetings on cold weather camping and wilderness survival and the like. The activities they do are very much the same ones the rest of the troop does. We have been trying to form a Venture Crew (this year I am in charge of making sure they get registered) but they didn't do anything last year. In fact some of them who thought they were registered never actually got their paperwork to council (one of the boys was in charge of doing that but it didn't happen, hence my involvement this year). My boy is 12 and a young Life but no where near Eagle material yet. We are not yet involved in Venture because of his age, but I don't see any "cool" activities happening for the Venture patrols. I would be happy to be a resource advisor for them someday. There are great activities out there. They/we do not do very much, read hardly any, backpacking.I would really like to see more of that and it's practically free. We live in Colorado, beautiful country.

 

We usually get about 6-8 Webelos crossing over and keep about half of them by the end of first year. We run an Eaglebound group to get them through 1st Class which mainly requires active participation and still we lose about 1/2. About 24 of the 31 boys are 14+ and we do have about one Eagle Court every quarter so I know some will get it done. I am discouraged though as is the SM regarding the lack of program for the Venture Patrols.

[shemgren 10]

While advancement is something to keep a eye on, the typical Eagle is nearly 18. My troop has had 10 Eagles in the 8 years and all but one (age 16) had their packet turned very near their 18th birthday. I have a Scout currently working on his project with a little more than a month until his 18th birthday.

 

Young Eagles are rarer than Eagles themselves.

 

When I was Scout, my troop went through 7 SMs and 3 committes. I became SPL my second year in the troop and with that constant changes of adult leadership, I spent my time trying to keep the troop together, and advancement was low on my list. At almost 17, I was a Star Scout and my last SM encouraged me to go for Eagle wholeheartedly. I gave up SPL (after almost 5 years) and plunged ahead. That year, I earned 16 merit badges, Life, Eagle and a Bronze palm.

 

I serve my local troop as Eagle Project Advisor, and I can tell you that most boys wait until almost the last day to finish everything.

 

Having 31 Life Scouts is not unusual in large troop that you have. If the boys are activily attending, having fun, then your program is good.

 

The 2% stat only applied to boys Nation wide, not to your local area. If a boy is motivated to become an Eagle, he will. While there is work involved, it is not impossible or overly tough, but it does require stick-to-it-ness.

 

The best you can do encourage them to carry on, support them in their decision, keep your problem fun, varied and interesting.

 

Scott Hemgren

ADC

Centraal Minnesota Council

 

 

[eisely 13]

There is another distraction for teenage boys that I don't think anybody mentioned (I was skimming). That is the discovery of humans who are female. Can't do much about that.

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Could put them in a Coed Venture crew...

[slontwovvy 10]

As our troop's old Scoutmaster used to say, the reasons that Scouts leave during high school are the three W's--work, wheels, women.