Hurricanes/Tropical Storms and Camping

[Scouter&mom 10]

I am in an inland council, but parts are within 50 miles of coast. We have had lots of rain, wind and flooding from hurricanes and tropical storms over the years. For others of you that deal with tropical weather, how much time before an event do you cancel/change plans?

 

Several weeks ago, we changed our troop camp-out to a camp-in in the church social hall due to TS Fay. We ended up having 9" of rain that weekend, and a tornado watch all weekend, and a couple of radar indicated tornado warnings. The boys cooked on stoves on the covered back entrance, and managed to do most of their activities either in the gym or under the large covered drive area.

 

Now, I see predictions that Hurricane Ike may be in the Eastern Gulf of Mexico and possibly come our way next weekend. That is the weekend our council Webelo-Ree is scheduled. I sure hate the idea of taking those kids and parents (including the new kids and parents who have never camped) to spend the weekend in the rain (and possibly worse). At what point, understanding the vagaries of hurricanes, should we expect the council to make a determination as to go or no go? Or should we? If they don't cancel, but storms are promised, should there be some way to get a refund on the registration fees? (I feel they are excessive, but that's another story) I know if I were the parent of a Webelo who had never camped, I would want to bail on camping in the kind of weather we had last month and would like to see a refund of the money I had paid.)

 

 

 

[scoutldr 726]

I have lived on the Atlantic coast all my life and grew up with hurricanes. With today's modern forecasting, you can pretty much tell a week in advance if you're in the "cone of uncertainty." I just spent the day under Hanna, and until this morning, we thought it would pass directly over us. Instead, she went about 100 miles west of us and, while we got some wind gusts in the 40-50 mph range and a few waves of heavy downpours, it turned out to be "no big deal" as hurricanes go. We've had worse thunderstorms this summer. That's not to say I would have been camping this weekend. Hurricane Floyd went through a few years ago, and we had much the same thing here, but 80 miles away, our Council camp was devastated by a tornado and flash floods.

 

Be Prepared and Safety First. If I were in charge of the event, I would be making my decision to reschedule now, if it looked like there will be inclement weather. Even if you don't get a direct hit, there can be dangerous weather hundreds of miles from the eye. Ike is forecast to re-emerge into the gulf as a Cat 3...nothing to mess with.

[SctDad 10]

sctldr must be from somewhere in my council because I spent this morning driving to clinical internship in the storm.

 

IMO, someone should be looking at the weather 7 days out. That is part of the Checklist that is in the BALOO manual. I have postponed 2 campouts because of rain (only one was significant) and then when we did go we went to the Local Camp where we had shelters for sleeping if we needed it. It rained that morning but the afternoon was great. The boys had a lot of fun. Although I would have to say that I am lucky in that I have a lot of parents that are former military and they usually don't have a problem with a little rain.

 

I think that there are two schools of thinking here.

 

Cub Scouts: You may have parents that are new to camping and bad weather can turn them off for good. Tkae this into consideration. make plans to have fair weather camping.

 

Boy Scouts: When I was in Boy scouts, we did not cancell because of a regular rain storm. Yes we did take into account the Thunder and lightening risks. But run of the mill rain storms did not cancel the trip. That was part of being prepared. We had a Webelos weekend here this spring and even though there was some nasty weather, they all stayed out and stil did the skills and events. The only thing that was cancelled was the OA crossing over, because they did not want the ceremonial clothing to get ruined. I can see their point.

 

I think that if you have a question about the weather, look at the forecast, talk to the other parents and make a decision by Thursday. Yes you may disappoint the boys, but it will probably be for the better.

[Nike 94]

Here is a link to the National Hurricane Center:

 

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/index.shtml?

 

 

Hurricanes and TS are changeable things. We had school cancelled for Hurricane Grace back in 85. Grace bypassed VA and we had a fabulous sunny day out of school. Keep your weather eye out and err on the side of caution. You'll probably have an inbox full of e-mail by next week. As a Tiger mom, I'd want a decision by Thursday night.

 

 

 

 

 

[Eagle92 110]

I believe SctLdr and SctDad are in my council, East Carolina Council, and one may possibly in my district :)Gotta send a PM to them.

 

 

Anyway my $.02 cents worth is to definitely check the weather and be prepared to cancel or modify an event. If you are involved with Cub Scouts, I would be prepared to cancel sooner than with a Scout troop. Some parents just aren't campers, and having a horrible first camping experience ruins it sometimes. Also with that many young ones running around, it's definatley a tricky situation.

 

Also if something ceremonial is involved, like an OA crossover,it is better to cancel. Not only will everyone's minds be on the weather, but also you don't several hundreds of dollars in regalia getting ruined. Trust me regalia is not only is it expensive , but time consuming to make. And I have called off a ceremony due to weather.

 

However Scouts are expected to be a little better prepared for foul weather. I've camped in storms. Heck I did the Wilderness Survival portion of the old Brownsea JLT program when the very outer bands of a hurricane were hitting us. Luckily it was wind and rain with no lightening or tornadoes. That stuff began after graduation the next day. But twice now I've had to move to permanent structures because of tornado warnings and watches. And these things came upon use very unexpectedly.

 

One final note. If you are having a mixed CS and BS activity and the weather is going to be bad, even if the Scouts would be able to handle it, just go ahead and cancel it. One of the worse experiences in my scouting career was a joint activity with our feeder pack to do a hike about 4 hours away. We stayed overnight in a church gym, which wasn't bad, but when the weather turned foul, none of the CS parents wanted to do the hike. And since some of those parents also had scouts in the troop, they did not want us doing the hike either, despite all the scouts being prepared to do so. That ticked of all the scouts. So avoid the angst and just cancel.

[Scouter&mom 10]

Okay, I guess I wasn't clear. My concern right now is a council Webelo campout. It will be at council camp (about 30 miles from CO). Webelos dens camp for two nights and work on activity pins or skills to transition to Boy Scouts. The event is council event and is planned and run by a committee of volunteers. I am a den Leader and only involved in planning for our packs Webelos dens. Right now, the path of Ike is still extremely unsure. We have 6 Webelos who were in CS last year and have camped, but we have 15 who have just joined the pack within the last couple of weeks at school nights and most have no camping experience. I am leary of a weekend of constant or torrential rain being their introduction to camping.

 

My questions are if Ike looks like it is coming this way... Should I be able to get refunds of registration from council office if we cancel due to weather? And yes, it is enough to worry about! Groceries won't be bought until Thursday, so that is not an issue. Who at council level has authority/responsibility to call the event if weather is too threatening?

[scoutldr 726]

Got it. It's about the money.

 

The SE and event chairman will make the decision. If materials have been purchased or contracts let (ie, portapotties) refunds might not be realistic. In cases like this, I would think the event would be postponed, rather than cancelled outright. Of course, if there's another Katrina event, ...

 

Just curious...how much money are we talking about?

 

I just saw the latest projected path for Ike, and it looks like it's targeting the same area as Gustav...the TX/LA border. Of course a slight jog in the path now could mean a 500 mile difference when it makes landfall.

 

I'm a little North of you, Eagle92.

[scottteng 11]

"Effective for tours on January 1, 2009, at least one adult must have completed Planning and Preparing for Hazardous Weather training."

 

The above is a quote from the latest tour permit application. BSA is being proactive in regard to weather issues. That being said we were camping in feeder bands of Gustav recently. The wind set some of the tents dancing. Generally speaking we are camping at a state or county park the park rangers pull the evacuation trigger quicker than we would. In the past 3 years we have been ordered out of a state park for a storm that never materialized and had to leave gear and be transported to shelter on a backpacking trip at a county park. That was only for a couple of hours and was due to tornado warnings. My son also got to spend a night in the dining hall at summer camp due to a Tropical storm. The money issue can only be answered by the council office each one has their own policy on refunds or credit for future events. These apply if they cancel the event not generally if you decide not to attend.

[Scouter&mom 10]

Yes, I don't mind telling Parents our den will camp later, but I really hate for our parents to lose their money. Thanks for the info on who will be the decision maker. That lets me know who to contact and push as necessary.

 

Registration for one Webelo and one adult is $27.. meals are not included. Den (adults and boys) will be cooking. Our den has set cost for food at $15 per pair, and the pack will absorb any we go over when we buy groceries. We are in a very poor socio-economic area and many of our parents are already reluctant to spend $42 to take one boy camping for the weekend. We will be using the troop's stoves and cooking equipment.

 

The projected path of Ike is different from network to network and has changed westward (away from us) on some forecasts in the last several hours, but until Ike clears Cuba, anything can really happen.

[scoutldr 726]

scotteng, Not all councils require Local Tour Permits for council/district events.

[emb021 16]

FWIW, we just went thru this with Hanna.

 

Hanna's predicted path was along Florida's west coast, fairly close enough to cause TS or H level weather.

 

We had a Lodge weekend planned at the same time.

 

But as noticed, storms can be unpredicatable.

 

The decision was made that if we went under Hurrican Warning in the county the camp was, then the event would be cancelled.

 

Thankfully, Hanna wound up going farther east from Florida, and so no such warning were needed and so things went on.

 

[John-in-KC 311]

Gotta agree with scoutldr. Depending on how big your Council is, the SE or one of his senior Professionals will make the call.

 

A reasonable window for a decision would be Wednesday-Thursday of event week.