Hiking question

[AnEagle 10]

My friends and i have recently gotten into hiking as our new hobby. A few weeks ago some of us hiked five miles and had a great time but frankly none of us knew what we're doing. We took a cell phone, water and a map that, it turned out, we couldn't figure out anyway. We have been arguing about future hikes and what we should take, no one wants to carry more then they have too so what should we take? Does it depend on the length of the hike and how many people are going? How many people should you hike with? Basically any hiking facts would be grateful, we've already almost had a disaster leaving us with some facts like: when you have a group do not split up, do not go hiking in the dark without flashlights, and cell phone towers do not exist everywhere i guess you could say we're learning by doing but i would just as soon skip some things thanks for the help!

[SSScout 1615]

Well, let's see...

 

Five miles or fifty, depends on your purpose, I would say.

 

Just walking, running: Shoes, dress for the weather ( hat, sweater, you can always take it off, but you can't put it on if you don't have it), pack/belt bag to carry stuff in, map is good (make sure it's the right map. Once went on the trail with a friend who was sure we had the right map. We did, but he started us from the OTHER end of the trail. No wonder the directions and landmarks didn't quite match up), Water canteen, poncho (sit on it if nothing else), Snack/lunch, small first aid kit, cell phone (why are you out in the woods?)?, camera, ID so they know where to send the body (heh, heh, heh),small plastic trash bags (many uses).

 

Bird/nature study/area history: guide books, charts, binoculars/telescope, notebook, pen/pencil, rock hammer, sample cases, wax paper/newspaper to wrap stuff in.

 

Skills practice: Compass, maps, ropes, climbing gear, large first aid kit, matches, camp stove, etc.

 

Big people carry alot, little people carry a little. Dogs carry their own food and water dish (leash don't forget)

 

Assign a 'point' person in the group and a 'drag'. (is this too organized?) For a large group, no one goes on ahead of the 'Point', no one gets behind the 'drag'. That way, when you stop, you know you have everyone when the 'drag' shows up. Drag should be someone experienced. Helps folks with problems. Don't change directions (fork in the road?) without making sure EVERYONE is aware. Point and Drag can change thru the day, but make sure THEY know who they are. Small walkie talkies?

 

Tell people at home where you are going, how you will get there, when you expect to return. Make contact with the Park Ranger so they know who's around. Don't lock your keys in the car! Maybe arrange a hidden extra key under a fender.

 

Single file, mostly, be respectful of others on the trail. If you bring it in, take it out with you. "Take only pictures leave only footprints". A trash bag can be filled as you go if you are sensitive to the stuff on the trail. Motto: If God didn't put it there, I should pack it out.

 

The longer the trail, the more you should plan. Anticipate. It will always take longer than you think. You will linger at overlooks, stop to chat, get tired, point at pretty rocks, get lost, get side tracked. Allow extra time. Understand that smaller folks, the less experienced, will be slower and may complain more. Be understanding and sympathetic. They will be more likely to come out again.

 

Murphy's Law Hiking Correllary: The item you leave at home will be the item you wish you'd brought. If your group is large enough, parcel out differnt things. You might not each need a large first aid kit, or a camp stove.

 

YiS KiSMiF

 

(This message has been edited by SSScout)(This message has been edited by SSScout)

[GernBlansten 10]

Depends, but there are some universal ideas to follow.

 

#1, follow Leave No Trace (www.lnt.org), lots of good practices to preserve the environment for your next hike.

 

#2, If traveling with youth, G2SS has some good practices you must follow to be in compliance with BSA.

 

#3, don't rely on technology. Its nice to have, but cell phones rarely work in the woods around my area. Bring a map and compass, stay on well defined established trails until you are comfortable reading them.

 

#4, until you are confident with your conditioning and skills, keep your hikes to popular areas. Remote, isolated areas are great, but don't expect to get help if you get in trouble.

 

#5, Tell someone (who is not going with you) where you are going and when you are expected back. Leave a note on your dashboard your itiniary. Set a time when they should start a rescue if you don't return.

 

#6, the best safety device you can take is a whistle. Everyone should have one.

[AnEagle 10]

Hmm maybe i should explain something. Our school sits in a velley in North East Georgia it has 1100 acres of land most of it undeveloped. The school is called Toccoa Falls College and if you ever need somewhere to visit i strongly encourage you to come becuase the school is named after the water fall that is on campus. It's a tourist attraction and is barley of the road. However, there are two water falls you have to hike to get too and these are the only hiking trips my friends and I have done so far. Little Falls is only a mile hike but you have to practically crawl up the mountain to get there. I didn't know it even exhisted until I was a student and have a feeling that the students themselves formed the "trail" up there. I don't think the college encourages or discourages hikes up there because of the liability and because students would do it anyway. The second trail is used and kept up by the out door leadership majors and the out door club tourists can use it too. It goes back to Contentment FAlls and It's kind of hidden (i found it by accident). It's five miles round trip and the trail at least i thought was "moderate" not that i have much experience but where a person like me who has only ever hiked around a mall can hike five miles in two hours it can not be that hard. This trail is the one i'm specifically asking about because though it is on campus it goes very far back into the woods. Now the trail is marked by dimonds on the trees but people get lost back there all the time becuase there are many trails that branch of the one we use and all are marked by dimonds (let's be creative and use dimonds again) If you actually get to the falls you are allowed to camp there though i think i'll stick with getting there and back first. Anyways there are no park rangers if there is an emergency all we can do is call 911 which i suppose wouldn't do much good back in the woods (little falls would be a nightmare if something happened cause there is no way anyone could get up there fast, something did happen up there once and all they could do was bring the "victim" back down off the mountain) Hmm i'm rambling agin sry i tend to go off on random tangents. Anyways Saturday i am "leading" a group of friends that haven't been there before to Contentment Falls and tips on that would be great too. By the way if you ever come visit Toccoa FAlls i'll lead you to both Little Falls and Contentment Falls (hehe)

[packsaddle 753]

Heh, heh, sounds like you already discovered some of the basics the hard way...and survived. That's good. The previous lists and advice are all good (although if I added up all the weight that SSScout mentioned it would need to be spread out over quite a number of persons). I would add that the best tool you have for safety and all the rest is a clear mind. That is achieved by being prepared (using the lists already mentioned) and by planning carefully (this means getting started on time and planning for an appropriate distance).

 

Gern mentioned technology. I'd leave the gps home. It is great at telling you where you are but terrible at figuring out how to get to another destination. It is a tool that is suited for water navigation but, at least on the mountain terrain around here, it is almost worthless. A compass, on the other hand, and the knowledge of how to use it.....

 

A cell phone might be a useful emergency tool IF you can find a signal. Otherwise it is dead weight. If you are only going to travel less than 15 miles or so in a day trip, and if you have followed Gern's advice and left an intinerary, you can probably leave the cell phone in the car.

 

Around here, for a day hike, clothing is mostly a consideration in the winter - to avoid hypothermia. I'd pack matches, etc., as SSScout mentioned, to start an emergency fire and I'd add to the list, perhaps, a water filter in case your supply runs low.

 

Edited part: I think we were typing at the same time so I'll add a couple of things. Toccoa is in my neck of the woods (and Brent's and Gonzo1's for that matter) and I know it well. There are so many other possibilities for hiking around Toccoa that I couldn't begin to list them here. I'll PM you and we can discuss this some more. I may take you up on your offer

P.S. the rain has been nice but the front moving in is going to cool things off. Great backpacking weather! Gotta go....(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[BrentAllen 10]

My best advice is to head to your local Scout Shop and pick up a copy of the BSA Field Book. I think you will find it to be very informative and a pleasure to read. Your Scout Shop might also have books dedicated just to hiking.

 

In addition to the other suggestions mentioned, if in a large group that might split up, set a time interval for rest breaks (start with around 15 - 20 minutes). This allows everyone to catch up (wait for the sweeper/drag to arrive). If someone in the rear has turned an ankle, the rest of the group won't get too far down the trail before they realize what has happened. The rest breaks also tend to keep everyone hydrated (water bottles usually come out), and they are a great time for everyone to check for hot spots (early sign of a blister forming).

[AnEagle 10]

Incase your wondering I do not live on the internet I just am successfully putting of doing all my hw. Yes believe it or not I have read the boy scout hand book. In Middle school I did a research paper on the Boy Scouts of America and it was one of my resources. Also, I have some Eagle scout friends who like to quote things at me all the time (feel free to quiz me i think i have a pretty good grasp on some things hehe)However, I haven't read the book straight through due to a slight accident lol (I got to the part on tying knots and my sister and i decided to give it a try. The only thing available to tie knots wround was my arm and as neither one of us knew what we were doing we ended up cutting my blood circulation off and had to cut the string. Our mother then made me take the book back lol)ANyways i have to go to class (psychology fun!)

[BrentAllen 10]

AnEagle,

Just to clarify, the Boy Scout Handbook and the Boy Scout Fieldbook are two entirely different books. The Handbook contains the Boy Scout advancement program and merit badges. The Fieldbook is an instructional book covering nearly all outdoor activities.

Ah, to be back in college.... :-)

[Beavah 205]

Hi AnEagle,

 

Sounds like yeh need to join a Venture Crew in your area, with your friends! Good hikes, and even more fun crazy adventures.

 

What yeh carry just depends too much on season, experience, and terrain to give great advice. I'd say

 

Map always (and know how to use it)

Compass if it's hard to navigate by just terrain.

Appropriate lightweight clothing and footwear (raingear if there's ANY chance of rain)

Flashlight if there's ANY chance of bein' out late, etc.)

Water and some snacks. Camelbacks are great, but as simple as a 1-L pop bottle filled with water and a couple o' power bars.

 

How many people depends on skill & terrain.

Usually, we teach 4 minimum for a long hike. If there's a problem, one person stays and two people go for help, so no one is ever alone.

But the more inexperienced people you have, the slower you go and the more "problems" you get. Havin' 4 inexperienced people can be worse than havin' just 2. Havin' 8 is much worse. OTOH, da more experienced people you have, the better.

 

Never "push it." Your rule should be as soon as anybody is getting at all worried, they have to tell everyone else and you have to change plans/go back. Most of the disasters happen because of testosterone poisonin' eh? People who get in deep and swim out deeper rather than just goin' home and havin' a good story.

 

You've learned some good lessons already.

 

Don't split up is a good one, at least without a time and place rendezvous and a "bulletproof backup plan." But yeh still need to know how to keep together, eh? Lots of times "slow" people fall off the back of the group and get accidentally separated. Always put a strong person at the very end ("sweep") and have him shout if the lead gets too far ahead. Always have the lead stop and wait at a turn or confusin' spot, even if he's sure he knows which way to go.

 

I'd modify your "don't hike in the dark without flashlights" to "don't hike in the dark." Flashlights allow you to see a stump before you trip, but they screw up your navigation by giving you such a limited view. Da only exceptions are an area you know really, really, really well; and even then, lots of people who aren't expert navigators get burned. I guess the other one can be full moon navigation in the open, but again, it requires "expert" skills.

 

Have fun out there. Da world is full of adventure. Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment. Just know when to retreat. There are old mountaineers and bold mountaineers, but no old, bold mountaineers.

 

[AnEagle 10]

Yeah hiking in the dark isn't a good idea. If anything though I have learned to stay hydrated, once again learned that the hard way too but at least I learned it! My other question is about the first aid kits do we always have to take one? I mean with the level of expertese my friends and i have (which is none) whether we have the kit or not wouldn't make a difference would it? Which brings me to another thought, snakes. Snakes in general don't bother me but i've seen them around our dorm and therefore i am sure they're in the woods, (one of the tourists kids nearly got bit by a rattlesnake a few weeks ago) so what if someone gets bit, besides the no panicking part? About the raingear if it's going to rain we're going to get wet either way so why carry something else? Now waterproof shoes i do understand aparently mine are not (learned that the hard way too). Also several people mentioned a compass...well i don't know how to use one and i can bet my friends don't know either, also don't you have to know what direction your coming from in order to use one? Haha i am not trying to be difficult i'm just naturally curious Thanks for being patient!

[CalicoPenn 729]

I'm going to make a suggestion no one else has up to now (though Beavah came close with the Venture suggestion): Your college has an Outdoors Club - join it - and join in on some of their activities - let them lead you for a while before you start to lead others in the woods - heck, get someone from the Outdoors Club to lead you and your friends on your next hike to Contentment Falls (tell them you're thinking of joining the club and want to experience a little about what its about and what you can learn from them) - You'll gain lots of experience in a safe environment from people who are already knowledgable and on the ground where you are - you can learn a lot from the folks in here and from books but its quite different from learning in person.

They'll be able to teach you how to use a compass too.

 

To answer the why carry raingear question - the answer is to prevent the clothes you are wearing from getting wet and soaking through to your skin - it doesn't sound like a big deal, but wet clothes not only make for a miserable hike but can lead to deadly consequences (and I do mean deadly). Wet clothes do not insulate you from low temperatures - dry clothes do. On a cold day, even just five miles in, wet clothes can lead to hypothermia, a condition where the body tries to protect it's core functions (heart, lungs) by reducing circulation to the extremities (legs, arm, head). In normal circulation, your warm blood is routed to your extremities and the returning blood is colder (think of your body as if its a radiator - the core is the furnace, the extremities distribute the heat to the air) - in a hypothermic situation, your body will try to keep your core warm by not sending as much blood to the extremities. As I'm sure you've figured out by now, if one of those extremities is your head, then it follows that your brain will also get less circulation - and even if the body doesn't think of it as a core function, without the brain, we're toast. Without quick treatment, hypothermia leads to death.

 

Calico

 

 

 

[GernBlansten 10]

AnEagle,

I must confess that I have a bit of a secret that will drive some of those on this board nuts. Don't tell our SPL ;-)

I often hike alone, with nothing but my two dogs and a water bottle. Ok, I do wear clothes.

 

I've been an avid hiker for the better part of 35 years. I live on the edge of the national forest and have a trail that leads right from my door into the wilds. That's why I bought the place 17 years ago.

 

When I venture alone, I don't take a cell phone, gps or even leave a note. Its part of the adventure. Me against the wild, or better, in communion with the wild. If I break a leg or get lost, its just me and the dogs. I'll figure it out, or die doing something I love. Have bad things happened? Sure. I slid down the side of mountain bouncing off trees and rocks. Beat me up pretty good. Took me much longer to get home that day. One of my favorite trips.

 

Some would call it irresponsible, I would agree. I wouldn't have it any other way. I also wouldn't recommend it to anyone else. Its a personal choice.

 

Now, when I hike with other peoples children, things change. I carry a first aid kit, cell, food, extra water, map and compass, leave a note. Can't be too careful. Always be prepared. I make the kids follow the buddy system.

 

[packsaddle 753]

Gern, from the perspective of one who has spent many weeks of solo backpacking in the Yellowstone backcountry over the years, I understand completely. It is such wonderful solitude.

[AnEagle 10]

So is suppose it's dangerous to hike alone but you can? When i first found the trail to contentment falls i went about half a mile or so by myslef and it wasn't the first time i've gone of hiking alone. When my friends found out the first time they all had cows, i figured it was just me because i tend to be slightly accidnet prone (i've slid down two very rocky hills on two different hikes) but then once i went out alone and turned me ankle so from now on i stick to hiking in groups lol.

[AnEagle 10]

(This message has been edited by AnEagle)