le Voyageur 72 Posted January 17, 2002 Share Posted January 17, 2002 Here's my list of things that can be dropped.... - The American Flag on the uniform.... - The Training Strip, not needed, use the World Brotherhood patch as the replacement. - The ugly brown Scout joining patch, use the World Brotherhood patch as the replacement. - The Stamp Collecting and Coin Collecting merit badges, tie them all into the Collecting merit badge. Link to post Share on other sites
Rooster7 11 Posted January 17, 2002 Share Posted January 17, 2002 Why anyone would want the American flag removed from the BSA (Boys Scouts of AMERICA) uniform is beyond me! I find this suggestion contemptible, especially given the current crisis that our country is enduring. If you don't like the American flag on your BSA uniform, I suggest joining another unit, like in another country. Sorry, but I'm tired of this kind of garbage. Link to post Share on other sites
AdvanceOn 10 Posted January 17, 2002 Share Posted January 17, 2002 I agree with Rooster on the flag. Why in the world would you remove it from the uniform? How would the World Brotherhood replace the trained strip or the Scout rank badge? All the World Brotherhood crest is showing that BSA is a member of this world organization. Not sure where you're coming from but it sure doesn't sound like Boy Scouts. Melodee Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Long 10 Posted January 17, 2002 Share Posted January 17, 2002 So the world brotherhood patch means you are trained AND a Boy Scout? What about Boy Scouts that aren't trained? As to suggestion #1, it's not going to happen........ever. Link to post Share on other sites
k9gold-scout 10 Posted January 17, 2002 Share Posted January 17, 2002 Should we replace the US Flag with the UN Flag? How about starting a new program called Boy Scouts of the World. Link to post Share on other sites
le Voyageur 72 Posted January 17, 2002 Author Share Posted January 17, 2002 Folks, seems that your focus as to what I'm trying to say is as narrow as your viewpoints. Guess having an open mind, and looking at a suggestion from a different perspective is sometime you don't understand, and which by you're example you'll pass this trait on to your scouts. Shame on you....... First, I prefer the flag to be flying high and proud, not on a uniform shirt lying in the dirt, which I've seen many a times at scout camps. Not only are the boys guilty of this, but so too, are many adults. I've removed mind, I don't need to be decked out in flags to be an American. My two Purple Hearts and Bronze Star are dues for my citizeship that I've paid for in blood. Second, the Training patch and that ugly brown Joining badge are redundant. The World Botherhood badge would be the better choice to replace it with and to reconize training. Are we not trying to teach worldbotherhood...or is the BSA the only scouting organization in the world? Additionally, why should I wear a Trained patch centered between my UC patch and commissioner arrowhead. Looks so dumb..... So please, before you get on your little soap boxes, try and put the stump speeches aside,along with the cheap shots and think about what a person is trying to say, you might see a different perspective.......and remember the Scout Law, try starting with courteous..... Link to post Share on other sites
Dedicated Dad 10 Posted January 17, 2002 Share Posted January 17, 2002 The Stamp Collecting and Coin Collecting merit badges, tie them all into the Collecting merit badge. Good idea, and you should use the Brotherhood patch for this too, nest pas? Link to post Share on other sites
Dedicated Dad 10 Posted January 17, 2002 Share Posted January 17, 2002 Should we replace the US Flag with the UN Flag?Nope, the Brotherhood patch. Get with the program K9, you're too narrow minded! Link to post Share on other sites
nldscout 18 Posted January 17, 2002 Share Posted January 17, 2002 well looks like our old friend has surfaced with a new name again. Back to his old game of stirring thing up Link to post Share on other sites
Rooster7 11 Posted January 17, 2002 Share Posted January 17, 2002 I don't buy it. It IS exactly what you're saying that offends me. World Brotherhood is fine, but it does not replace my country. BSA has always promoted God, COUNTRY, and family...not God, WORLD, and family. I love the United States, and it stands second to none. If that offends someone, than so be it. Intellectualize all you want. Call me narrow minded if it makes you feel better, but I'll fight you and all other comers on this issue. As for your military record, I am impressed. As for your uniform suggestion, I stand by my original post. Perhaps you intent was to protect our flag from ground dirt...But I really have a difficult time believing that argument. Try buying a ground cloth instead. Link to post Share on other sites
le Voyageur 72 Posted January 17, 2002 Author Share Posted January 17, 2002 Guys, guys...lets back off a bit and catch our breaths...didn't mean to start a flame war...so lets start over and say howdy to one another. First, I'm new to this site. However, I've been in scouting since 1957. I love this organization with a passion that at times can be blunt. In scouting I serve as our Council's Campmaster, along with duties as a Unit Commissioner in a very rural county. Every now and then I get to work on training teams for Scouters and Venture crews. Also teach mountaineering and rock climbing, plus I'm a regional inspector of C.O.P.E. courses.... Come summer you'll find me working as the trek director for the Blue Ridge Mountain Council's Voyageur Trek, a expedition, white water canoeing program which will be featured in an upcoming Boy's Life article.... so there's me history in a nut shell....again, sorry for getting all on the wrong foot...so guys, what's your job in this game of scouting, hey.......... Link to post Share on other sites
jmcquillan 10 Posted January 17, 2002 Share Posted January 17, 2002 le Voyageur, Apologies aside, remember that the swiftest horse can not retrieve the word once spoken, or posted. I think you've set a tone now that might be real hard to get passed for many. Myself included. Link to post Share on other sites
Rooster7 11 Posted January 17, 2002 Share Posted January 17, 2002 I'm merely an ASM. If I've misjudged your intentions, I apologize. However, I was a little incensed to see the American flag on a list with the subject header of "Some things gotta go...." Link to post Share on other sites
Rooster7 11 Posted January 17, 2002 Share Posted January 17, 2002 Truth be told, I started the negative tone in this thread. However, I think the proposal of removing the American flag from the Scout uniform ("Some things gotta go...) without any explanation is rather inflammatory. le Voyageur has since provided an explanation, although I still find it lacking. While I am often guilty of knee-jerk reactions, I prefer not to think of myself as a jerk. That being said, I'm willing to back up the truck here and start over. le Voyageur, welcome to the site. You will find many diverse (although not always politically correct) and passionate opinions here. Enjoy. Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Long 10 Posted January 17, 2002 Share Posted January 17, 2002 Welcome to the board. If I might offer a bit of advice here. You posted some viewpoints with very little supporting logic. One of them being highly inflammatory. Many would easily mistake it for trolling as we frequently attract trolls here. You might want to carefully explain your position up front next time. Everyone here is passionate about scouting, expect a strong response to a strong statement. Once again, welcome. On to the discussion 1. I agree with your assesment in your second post completely but it doesn't provide a good reason to remove the flag from an organization that one of it's three charter priciples is patriotism. If I see a Scout or Scouter disrespecting the uniform I correct them without fail. It is part of our responsability to instill a healthy respect of our nation, its beliefs and its symbols in our membership. I don't that mission is well served by removing the only symbol of our nation from our uniforms. The word America is not enough. Members don't choose what goes on a uniform and should not presume to alter it. I'm sure your superiors would have had a problem if you altered your uniform while you were in service. The flag is part of the uniform, it should stay until national deems otherwise. When that happens my flag and I will have to go elsewhere. 2. The trained patch and the Scout badge represent different things entirely and serve different purposes. One recognises leadership training and one indicates a start on the trail to Eagle. Is the Brown Scout Badge ugly? Well I did think that it was until I became a Scoutmaster, but to my brand new scouts it looks like adventure and the promise of great things to come. I have never presented a Scout badge to a Scout who didn't have a HUGE smile plastered all over his face. I didn't think the badge was ugly after I realized the joy it brings to these guys. Made me remember when I got mine. I'm thinking I had a huge grin too. World brotherhood? Yes I teach it as much as I can. After all a Scout IS a friend to all and a brother to every other Scout, not just American Scouts. I am lucky, we are just outside of a Navy base and occasionally allied vessels call at port. When they do I contact the Quarterdeck at the base and ask if any current of former members of the Scouting movement would like to come to a meeting and talk to the boys. A few times we get visitors. It's a great experience. The Scout badge gets removed from the uniform when the boy advances. The World Brotherhood badge does not. 3. A collecting merit badge? I can see that but it would have to be awefully general. People do collect many things besides coins and stamps. Link to post Share on other sites
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