kd7kip 10 Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 At the risk of opening a can of worms... I was looking at my old Cub Scout uniform from the mid-70s recently, and showed it to my Tiger Cub son. One thing we both noticed was how few patches (in comparison to current uniforms) it had on it. Aside from American Flag, Community Strip, Pack number, Webelos colors and a council patch on the left pocket, there was rank and AoL, and nothing else. I never had a patch vest for overflow, because I didn't have any extra patches! So my question is: When did Scouting become infatuated with patches? Is it a good thing or not? Do you think it excessive? I have my own ideas (expressed elsewhere) but I'd like to hear other's opinions. -Scott Link to post Share on other sites
Scouter. 15 Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Kd7kip... My opinion is that as a culture, scouts included, we have moved from much less recognition to much more recognition. Fewer patches > many patches Fewer recognitions > more recognitions Fewer awards > more awards It seems more has become better. However ( my opinion only)... > Does recognizing everything with an award or patch diminish the significance of milestone awards? > And a movie quote..."...When everyone becomes super, no one will be!" - The Incredibles (Yeah...I know it's just a movie...but it does make me sit back and think). Peace to you...I do wonder about what you are thinking as well. Thanks for posting. Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle92 110 Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 I'd say August 1984 onwards. That was when the Sports program with all the sports belt loops and pins came out. Academics Program came out around 89 and they eventually merged into 1 program. I still remember selling the Sports "S" and Academic 'A"s. agree with Scouter 110% Link to post Share on other sites
desertrat77 1144 Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 I think the trend started in the '80s, and it is present everywhere--the participation ribbon syndrome. Funny you mentioned your cub shirt from the 70s...having just moved again, I looked at mine from the same era and had the same thought. Very few patches. Saw an old photo of our webelos den and those shirts were stark. Bobcat pins, wolf and bear patches, arrow points and that was it for personal recognition. As I recall, we had activities and projects all the time but you never got a patch or bead. You just did it and was happy to have done it. Link to post Share on other sites
kd7kip 10 Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 "As I recall, we had activities and projects all the time but you never got a patch or bead. You just did it and was happy to have done it. " Yes, the activity-- the fun, the satisfaction-- was the reward! One of the reasons I hate the Immediate Recognition things (aside from the fact that they're cheap, huge and ugly) is they don't help develop a sense of delayed gratification in the boys. Besides, when you're handing out bling every meeting, a rank badge becomes just another badge. -Scott Link to post Share on other sites
Alassa Eruvande 10 Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Our pack simply does not award all these "play patches" as we call them. For one, they are expensive. Second, it kind of lessens the importance of the "real" patches, the rank patches. I also was not in favor of the instant recognition beads. I figure, if the kid and his parents aren't motivated to complete a rank, a plastic bead isn't going to motivate them. At my brother's pack, in another town, they award a patch for anything and everything. Sneeze five times in a row? There's a patch for that. Show up for a meeting? There's a patch for that. Obviously I'm being sarcastic, but barely. ;-) Link to post Share on other sites
Twocubdad 665 Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Actually, I think the problem is they're NOT expensive. Patches, t-shirt, hats are comparably so cheap now it's easy to commemorate anything, so folks do. Link to post Share on other sites
kd7kip 10 Posted March 25, 2012 Author Share Posted March 25, 2012 Twocubdad- I agree. I feel Scoutstuff.org bears a fair amount of blame. They're always coming out with new stuff-- patches, t-shirts, hats and numerous trinkets. I think it risks creating an unhealthy sense of consumerism among Scouts. What does it mean when we say a Scout is Thrifty? Also, I think it works against the Uniform Method when you have kids with all the bling, and those who can't afford it don't have it. Alassa- That's a running joke in our pack too: "I washed my hands!" "There's a patch for that!" As I mentioned in another thread, my Tiger cubs don't bother to wear the Immediate Gratification things-- they have them, but after the first couple meetings, they stopped wearing them. (At least if they're going to issue them, they could make them smaller and less ugly!) -Scott(This message has been edited by kd7kip) Link to post Share on other sites
howarthe 42 Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I've had good experience using the immediate recognition badges in my tiger group. I don't like the look of them. I would rather see the temporary patch on my son's pocket, but I realized that the three different colored beads actually helped my son understand what I had been trying to explain to him for weeks: you need to do 15 things: 5 den activities, 5 family activities, and 5 filed trips. When he saw the beads on his shirt, he finally understood. Link to post Share on other sites
Basementdweller 608 Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Nope It is the current generation of parents...... Remember these are the same parents that insist on participation trophys for everything. The parents are more worried about the awards on the shirt than the qualities with in the boys. at work we are struggling with the Millennial generation. There is nothing worse than a 25 year old that expects recognition for simply doing their job. You guys are fairly new as adult scouters......An event doesn't go by when a parent or scout asks what does he get for doing this???? Link to post Share on other sites
kd7kip 10 Posted March 25, 2012 Author Share Posted March 25, 2012 Basementdweller- I agree. Funny, related incident that occurred just yesterday to me. Two of my daughters (9 & 11) finished their season of playing basketball in a community league. They had a lot of fun, but never once won a game. Nevertheless, home they came with very nice trophies, one each, and not the cheap gold plated plastic kind, but really nice engraved stuff. "What are those for?" I naively asked. "Playing basketball" they naively replied. Scouter earlier quoted "The Incredibles" which jogged my memory of an old Gilbert & Sullivan lyric: "When everybody's somebody, then nobody's anybody." As for the Millennial generation: I've been a manufacturing supervisor for the past 17 years, and can confidently tell you (having just completed annual performance reviews) that its not just the youngsters who expect a high rating and fat raise for performing to expectations. (To be fair, there are some very fine young employees as well-- must have been Scouts!) -Scott Link to post Share on other sites
Scouter. 15 Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Kd7kip...I identified with the trophies. Even more.., I remember as a kid that I had to "Try Out" for softball. Not anymore...no discrimination..all kids get on a team and many leagues don't keep score, they just play, but at the end of the season, they all get Trophies. In regards ... To the "What do we get for attending?"...I have to admit I have a shoebox of those that don't really mean much...EXCEPT my "Northern Lights Council (North Dakota) KLONDIKE Derby Patch". Cold...we all qualified for the sub zero patch during the day. That's a keeper ;-) Link to post Share on other sites
Brewmeister 132 Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 I believe many folks are combining a few different ideas that are actually separate. When it comes to the uniform, where the OP started the thread, it's not terribly different from a patch standpoint. The left pocket is unchanged except, of course, for the newer rank of Tiger. The righ pocket does allow for newer stuff...summertime pack awards and outdoor activity patch, recruiter strip, and a temporary patch. Where the big patch bonanza comes into play is on the Red Vest/fun patch area. And I think this is prefect because the patches on here are essentially souvenirs. I'm not sure about everyone else but I don't remember much about my cubbing days but I wouldn't mind having a "scrapbook" of mementos. Now I know the boys don't think that far ahead, but the point is that these are mementos and not awards. The low price point makes them perfect. Now, when you talk about trophies for participating, that is another thing altogether. A trophy connotates winning (or at least it used to) and the price point is much higher. Therefore, I think Cub Scouting really has it figured out when it comes to awards and patches. Reserve the official uniform for badges that are earned, except for one temporary patch on the right pocket. Put souvenier patches on a wearable scrapbook. And save trophies for the winning cars at the derby. Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle92 110 Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Brew, FYI the red vest was originally a BS item that now anyone can wear. The thing is there are more dodads now than back in the day. There was no CS outdoor activity award and pins back inthe day. You didn't have multiple colored Summer Time Pack award pins, just one. Scoutstuff didn't have monthly theme temp patches. And I can go on. Link to post Share on other sites
Brewmeister 132 Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Eagle92-- The OP had posted the question in the context of Cub Scouting so that's where I was coming from. He talked about the red vest for "overflow," but the only stuff that goes on the red vest are the "fun" patches. (Well, I guess you can put your "C" on there for pins.) It is true there are a few more things that can go on the official uniform, as I mentioned (summertime award, recruiter strip, etc.) I looked at a picture from me as a cub and there is nothing on my right pocket at all. But, "patch overflow" only applies to the red vest, so I don't see what the big deal is. Additionally, based on my own experience as an adult leader, the red vest serves as additional motivation/excitement for the younger boys. New Tigers come in and see all that they can be involved in. As a matter of fact, I use the red vest in recruiting to point out all the stuff our pack does--it's almost like a cool visual checklist. To each his own... Link to post Share on other sites
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