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I have a job at my councils camp as staff. Our staff is a venture crew. I see many of the adults who are council volunteers wearing their insignia on both venture uniforms and boyscout uniforms. Can I wear my camp staff insignia on a boyscout shirt?

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Silver loops and unit numbers generally don't go together on any uniform, to the best of my knowledge.


And (again, to the best of my knowledge) the tan uniform is one uniform option that Venturers DON'T have.


But these are both legalistic technicalities. I'd recommend speaking with your camp director and asking what the uniform expectations are for staff.


And congrats on the staff job, hope you have a great time!

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Ok, first off, its Venturing, not Venture. Those are 2 separate programs.


Are you planning to wear both a Venturing green uniform shirt AND a Boy Scout tan shirt? If you are registered as a Venturer, you are not supposed to wear a tan shirt. Adults can do either.


POR patches usually go on any uniform. Loops indicate what kind of position you hold (unit, district/council, etc). Unit numbers indicate the unit you are in.


So if you are wearing the uniform as part of your job as camp staff, POR, loops, and unit number would all be appropriate.


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Unless things have changed, you have three options.


1) Wear your normal unit's uniform. That can be Boy Scout, Sea Scout, or Venturing (and yes we had a guy on staff wearing dungarees one summer)


2) If your summer camp staff is also a crew, then you can wear a Venturing uniform, with the crew's number and green tab. If you are an officer in the crew, that POR patch is worn too. EDITED: You wouldn't wear the camp staff patch with this option.


3) If your camp does this, not every camp does this 'cause I've worked at camps that didn't do it and others that did, then you wear whichever uniform you want, Boy Scout or Venturing, silver loops, NO UNIT NUMBERS, and the camp staff POR patch. Reason for no numbers is b/c you are a council employee, and hence not with a unit.


It sounds as if option 3 is the one for you. I know some staffers who would like to be in that situation.(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

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OK I'm back.


If Rain is under 21 and not a Quartermaster, I'd probably wouldn't wear the Sea Scout dungarees at summer camp simply because it sounds like he wants to wear the silver loops and camp staff POR patch, and you could not do it.


For an adult, and youth who are QMs, maybe. While khakis are easy to obtain, buy a set of Dickie's and take off the Dickie's tab, the insignia may be a bit challenging to obtain.


I found out why the once non-restricted Sea Scout lapel pin is now restricted: it is also used by QMs as collar pins on khakis. They will be a challenge to get as they need to be special ordered, and possibly have paperwork filled out.EDITED: Like the First Class rank pin that can be worn by all youth on hats irregardless of actual rank, the Sea Scout lapel pin ( or as it was actualy marked on the wrapper "Lapel Pin, Sea Explorer" ) can be worn by all Sea Scouts and leaders for non-uniform wear. For uniform wear, only QMs wear it, and then only with khakis, and if memory serves (please correct me if i'm wrong Sailing) on the softboards of the dress whites. And that's Why I bought one, for non-uniform wear.




As for the adult insignia on the khaki uniform, you really cannot order it through council because national either dowesn't carry it, or have the wrong stuff according to the 2002 uniform changes. You need to buy through SHIPS STORES.


While SHIPS STORES are AWESOME and the customer service is FANTASTIC, b/c of where they are located, some of the shipping costs are more than what I purchase at times. So I need to save up on what I need to buy and place a large order from her to make it cost effective b/c of the shipping. Otherwise the prices on the merchandise are excellent, service is excellent, knowledge of program is excellent. Jackie and her crew do an AWESOME JOB and I am 110% behind them.


But since converting my district committee shirt to a commissioner shirt, only uniforms I have left with district/council level insignia are my Sea Scout uniforms, both the 2002 compliant, and my pre-2002 "Piratetical outfit" ;)(This message has been edited by eagle92)

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rain - It would seem to me that that would be like wearing a Cub Scout uniform while in Boy Scouts :-)


I think if you had a second shirt with your camp staff insignia, and wore it occasionally as a "backup" to troop functions, that would be OK. But, technically, you're supposed to wear the correct uniform for your unit and position. So at camp, that would be the staff uniform. In your unit, that would be your unit uniform.


But these are again technicalities. It would be prudent to check with your unit leadership and camp staff leadership to see what the practical uniforming expectations are.

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Talk your camp area director, program director, or camp director about it.


The standard policy is you wear the loops and POR for the job you are doing at the moment. So for a troop meeting, you wouldn't wear the silver loops and camp staff POR, you'd wear the normal uniform shirt with green or red loops, unit numbers, and POR patch withn the troop.


BUT, and here is where you need to talk to the folks above, some councils will allow you to wear the camp uniform, either the summer camp staff crew's uniform, or if you are wearing an employee uniform ( no unit numbers and silver loops) when you do camp promotions. Otherwise they don't want you wearing it.


I'll give you some examples. Last year we had a district service project that my pack was involved with. I wore my CSDL uniform with blue loops, numbers etc. For whatever reason, I got put in charge of it after I showed up, despite having other district committee members there and me not suppose to be in charge. Since it's a 2 day event, the next day I wore my district committee shirt since I got put in charge, even though I was also there with my den.


Another example, and this is where you need to talk to your summer camp boss. When I last worked at summer camp, I was part of a national pilot with Supply. So I wore gold loops. Even though I was part of the summer camp staff, and promoting summer camp was part of the job description, I could NOT wear my national shirt when doing camp promos at units. I could promote summer camp within the scout shop, and at activities the Scout Shop was invited to attend at the district/council level, i.e. district training days, council annual planning event, largescale council camping events, etc. But I had to wear another uniform if I did a camp promo at a unit ( which was funny since I was registered in a different council and my uniform had that CSP on it). That also was when I left work and drove straight to my meetings, I had my troop shirt in the car and changed shirts.


If I wore the national shirt at any other time, I'd get fired. Rationale was that they didn't want it to appear as if the scout shop was endorsing something, or that I was doing something with national's authority. You council may follow the same policy.

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It sounds like you're asking how you would wear the silver loops and the camp staff patch after the camp season ends (or before it begins). I'm afraid in regards to the silver loops, you wouldn't. If camp staff wears silver loops on camp staff uniforms (and check with your camp director to see if that's the case), then they wear them for the duration they are employed and actively working at camp. You don't start wearing them until you start working, and you stop wearing them once your summer contract has expired since you're no longer Council "staff". Before camp starts and when camp ends, you wear the loops of the program you're in.


As for the camp staff patch, when camp ends, you would treat it like a temporary patch that would go on your right shirt pocket - and you can wear that on your Boy Scout uniform for as long as you want. Unless your Troop has a rule about how long you can wear a temporary patch (which I hope they don't, by the way), you can wear it as your temporary patch for the rest of your Scouting life, if you want. When I was a Scout, we had Scouts that would put the patch from their first camporee on and leave it there through successive camporees, klondikes, and summer camps - and the patch wouldn't change until they outgrew the shirt, then whichever was the latest would go on the new shirt (I suspect neither the Scout nor "mom" wanted to sew a new patch on the shirt every other month). Others would change the patch every time they got a new one (and plastic patch holders got very popular amongst them). Others would put on their summer camp patch and that's the one that they would always have on their uniform shirt, and others would put the coolest looking patch they got on their shirt and wouldn't change it until the next cool patch came along (one year, our OA Lodge had patches made up for the Spring Ordeal Weekend made up to look like outhouses since the big job that weekend was to build all new outhouses in all of the campsites at summer camp - the design of the patch matched the design of the new outhouses - that patch stayed on a lot of uniforms for a very long time cause it was one of the most unusual looking patches we ever had).


If the camp staff is considered a venturing crew, then it's possible you will end up needing a venturing shirt that you would put all of this on, in which case, at the end of camp, hang it in the closet as a souvenier of the summer, just as it is. That's where one of my staff shirts from my time at a National High Adventure Base has ended up - gold loops and all (the rest were stripped of patches and loops and donated to a local troops uniform closet).

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What is a camp staff POR? Do you get patches with your job title at this camp?


I was once in your position - I wore my staff uniform year-round, because I was closer to my fellow staffers than I ever would be to members of my troop. That was my justification, anyway. I was wrong - I was looking for an excuse to look cool and stand out. But it was a poor example for the Scouts in my troop.


In my experience, and opinion, camp staffers should represent the camp, not their home unit, even if that home unit is a Venturing Crew composed largely of staffers. So rank, knots, council strip, silver loops, maybe the Den Chief Service Award cord if you're working with Cubs, Camp School patch in temp spot or else the current camp patch, and that's sufficient.


When you're with your home unit and camp's over, you should probably wear your troop's standard uniform.(This message has been edited by Shortridge)

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