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Dedicated Dad

Women in Scouts Policy?

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Robinton

I WISH WOMEN WERE NOT ALLOWED AT CERTIAN LEVELS IN THE SCOUT PROGRAM i.e. SCOUTMASTERS OR ASSISTANTS AND CERTIANLY NOT ON CAMPOUTS. I would agree with this with some exception, however this should be the ideal model and worthy of our best efforts as fathers. A side note, would you mind not shouting I had put my earplugs in to read your post.

 

 

 

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"I WISH WOMEN WERE NOT ALLOWED AT CERTIAN LEVELS IN THE SCOUT PROGRAM i.e. SCOUTMASTERS OR ASSISTANTS AND CERTIANLY NOT ON CAMPOUTS. THE BOYS IN MY TROOP DO NOT WANT THEM ON CAMPOUTS EITHER. WHEN A MOM DOES ATTEND, THE BOYS ACT DIFFERENTLY AND EACH TIME I AM ASKED WHY WE HAVE TO ALLOW MOMS ON CAMPOUTS. "

 

How do they act different? Depending on a "camp mommy" to do things for them? Or better behaved? What is it about moms on campouts they don't like? They can't have body noise contests?

 

I WISH that more males were teachers beginning in elementary school level. The main reason they are not is that our school systems don't pay them enough and modern society seems to say men shouldn't teach small children.

 

I want my son to have good male role models. But as a female I can teach the scout skills, some merit badges, and scout spirit. Can I teach my boy to be a "man"? Yes, because I teach him to be an adult -- to think for himself, respect others and respect himself. No, I don't have him in the yard teaching him to box and fight. I don't think many dads do that today either.

 

If I am trained, qualified and dedicated, why can't I be a scoutmaster or assistant scoutmaster. Isn't this a boy-led program with the adults there for support?

 

"I EXPLAIN TO A MOM WHO WANTS TO ATTEND AS I STATED ABOVE. THE PROGRAM IS FOR THE BOYS AND WHILE SHE WILL BE WELCOMED BY ALL LEADERS WE TRY TO GIVE THE BOYS A PROGRAM AS THEY WANT IT."

You may say in WORDS that all are welcome, but from your post it sounds like your non-verbal clues make it clear that women are NOT welcome. Your boys have picked up on this message loud and clear.

 

I know the moms who run around afraid the kids are going to get dirty or afraid of bugs or afraid of the dark, but not all women are this way.

 

There was a discussion at our recent Cub Scout leader meeting concerning making the kids wear helmets when riding their bikes in a parade. One male leader didn't know why we made such a "big deal" about this. First, it is a safety issue, second it is a LAW where we live that anyone under the age of 16 must wear a helmet when riding on a public road. He really wanted to cause a big stink about it. My point was as adults we should set examples for our children by making them abide by the law and as scouts we are sending a message as to how we see the law. The Boy Scout handbook specifically addresses boys should abide by laws and if you don't agree then work within our constitional system to change them.

Do I want my son influenced a lot my men like this? No. I know not all men are like this, but most of the male leaders in our pack send the message that the bike helmets are a nuisance and we can ignore the laws unless someone is looking. It was us moms running around before the parade to see that helmets were on properly. It was also the moms walking the parade route making sure no one got lost, fixing chains that came loose, picking up kids who fell, getting kids back to parents at the end, etc. Most of the men leaders and dads were not there at all. One man rode a bike, 2 men drove trucks in the parade for the some kids to ride on. About 6 moms walked or rode bikes, one mom pushing a stroller with a 2 year old. One man said it was too far of a walk for him (geez, a lot of us have feet and leg problems). Do you think I want to trust these men with my 12 year old for a weekend? Hmmmm..some days I'm not sure.

 

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sctmom

 

Thanks for being there for your scouts. In addition to your local laws, The Guide to Safe Scouting also requires that Scouts wear bike helmets at all times. And it waives the ban on scouts riding on the back of a truck only for parade routes and hayrides, and then only if they have something to hang on to and they are not allowed to have their legs hanging off the end. In other words, the scouts could board the back of the truck at the start of the parade route, but are not to be transported to or from their meeting place to the parade kickoff area in the back of the truck.

 

Tell any nay say'rs who object to bike helmts that these kids have good brains and you want to keep them that way. Let the rest be implied....

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"Tell any nay say'rs who object to bike helmts that these kids have good brains and you want to keep them that way. Let the rest be implied.... "

 

As I tell both boys and parents "I really don't want to be cleaning blood and brains up off the road." Gross, yes, but said with a smile and I got their attention .

For my own son "I really like the way my son's head is shaped, kinda like to keep it that way."

 

 

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Robinton,

 

Please do not use all UPPER CASE in future posts. It is hard to read.

 

sctmom's point is well taken. I have seen many males say that women are welcome, but there are non verbal ways of sending the message that they really aren't welcome. I also have talked with thoughtful men and women who all want strong positive male role models for their sons, and look for that in scouting. This is particularly true of single moms that I have dealt with. The difficulty is that there are not enough male volunteers to do the job the way it must be done. If women can step in to deliver an effective program when the men cannot or will not do so, then power to them.

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One comment on what sctmom wrote:

 

>>>>

Can I teach my boy to be a "man"? Yes, because I teach him to be an adult -- to think for himself, respect others and respect himself.

 

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Andrews writes:

 

"Would you think a girl could (should) grow up to be a woman with no "all girl" experiences? If not, why should the same not be said for a boy? "

 

I didn't have ANY all girl experiences growing up. I grew up with both male and female role models. As a teenager I worked in a small town hardware store, which was unusual where I lived. As a female I have been the minority in classes and work during high school, college and my career. Often being the ONLY female in a group. My father taught me as much about being an independent adult as my mother, maybe more so. I don't try to be "one of the guys", I accept who I am and expect the men to accept me as an equal.

 

I'm one of the first to stand up and say that male and female are different in many ways. Maybe I'm the exception, but my son is just as much "boy" as the other scouts even though he spends more time with me than with males. Yes, I want him to have strong male role models, because he needs to see not all males are like his father (only watches TV, no hobbies or interests).

 

Yet, I still am at a loss as to what I can't teach him and what you can't teach your daughters.

 

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I kind of have to laugh when people talking about the "mommy" factor when the Scouts go camping. My troop has one mom that camps with us about 4-5 times a year. She is actually very good about staying out of the way of the kids and letting them get things done. The dads (including her husband) are the ones that I've tried to rein in about letting the kids get things done so they can learn. Of course, I've seen the moms try to do everything when they go camping, but that was years ago with us. The moms in the troop love I'm trying to get their sons to do more for themselves. One even commented to me that she was really excited when her son came home from a campout and said that I told him he needed to learn how to do his own laundry (she wished I could talk to her other kids as well).

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There is something about another adult telling a kid to do something like laundry that makes them listen. Even though no adult is as smart as a teenager, other adults are slightly smarter than one's own parents.

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sctmom,

 

You said, "Yet, I still am at a loss as to what I can't teach him and what you can't teach your daughters."

 

I agree with the sentiment that parents should be able to address all topics with their children, regardless of gender. Regardless, I still think there are instances whereas a man can mentor a boy much better than a woman and vice versa. Men offer a different perspective on issues like the treatment of girls, controlling one's temper, controlling one's fear, and the like. This perspective has been cultured by the male physiology and psyche from birth to adulthood. It's a unique perspective. One that only other males can truly understand and appreciate, just like being a woman offers a perspective that is unique and special. Can you teach him the same things? Yes. Will it be just as effective as if a man communicated it? Will your efforts cover all of the same aspects? That depends on the man delivering the message. No doubt, there are many brilliant and strong women. However, if I were given a choice, I'd rather have my son mentored by a brilliant and strong man. This does not make any particular woman less brilliant or strong than any particular man. As you said, we do have differences. These differences should not be underestimated or belittled. They should be noted, addressed, and in many cases, celebrated. Unfortunately, in an ever increasing PC world, this becomes increasingly more difficult.

 

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Rooster7 stated exactly what I was trying to - the perspective is different.

 

I would also note that your son can't look up to you and think, "I want to be a man, just like my mom." At least I hope not. :) Of course you can add things to his life that a man cannot, especially by giving him the feminine perspective.

 

It is the same, in reverse, with my own daughters. I have been spending a lot of time talking with my teenage daughter about how men think. But I fully realize I cannot model to her how to be a lady - I can only tell her about it. Children need both. And I want my daughters to have a good example of what a good husband is like so they make wise choices down the line.

 

I pray you do the same with your son about what a good wife is, and how important it is to treat her with respect and honor.

 

Brad

 

Brad

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There is a wonderful quote from Mark Twain (my favorite philospher) that, while specifically referring to a dad, probably applies with equal force these days to moms. The quote goes something like, "When I was eighteen my father was the most ignorant man on earth. I was amazed at how much the old man had learned by the time I was twenty one."

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