I am new and wondering....

[TIGERMOM 10]

Hi

I am a new den leader. ALL the leaders in our pack are new. We have been discussing some things and are wondering who decides how the money our pack earns should be spent. Our cubmaster has always decided what gets spents without discussing with anyone and has recently made a large purchase of tents without any of us being aware of it. It completely drained our funds and we are now left asking the parents or buying everything out of our own pockets. Shouldnt any major purchase be discussed first or is the cubmaster the only one to have access to the pack funds. PLEASE HELP.

thanks

[eisely 13]

No single adult leader should have the authority to make major commitments of funds. This is one of the purposes of the unit committee. As is often suggested in these threads, adults leaders can benefit from training. In this case I don't know if training would have made any difference to your cub master. Like any other organization, a cub pack needs some semblance of a budget to avoid these kinds of situations. This budgeting cannot be done by one individual, but is a committee function.

 

Having a separate treasurer with a bank account also enhances money management. Were thse funds simply being held as cash?

[TIGERMOM 10]

Eisely

thank you for your reply. To be honest we(myself and other leaders) have no idea how the money is handled although I think our cubmaster has an account open for us. My oldest son has been involved with this pack for 4 years and in that time none of the parents,as far as I know, have ever been told how much we have profited from any sales or fundraisers. The cubmaster and his wife simply buy things as we ask for them or tell us we have to ask the parents to get the items. There is no committee and we have never been asked to help plan a budget

[Rooster7 11]

It may be very innocent...But it sure doesn't sound that way. This is why a committee is so important. It removes all specter of wrongdoing and gives the parents confidence that the funds are being disbursed in a prudent and ethical manner. Even if your Cubmaster has acted honorably, you will never know for sure because he's been operating without checks and balances.

 

It's imperative that you organize the parents and serve the Cubmaster notice that the funds, in fact leadership itself, must come under the oversight of the committee. If there isn't a committee, then you need to establish one soon. If you meet resistance, then contact your local council. Also, contact your Chartering Organization and get a COR. He has the authority to make things happen.

 

[eisely 13]

The very first adult volunteer position I filled over ten years ago was as cub scout pack treasurer. We had a bank account and also had dual signature control over the bank account. Dual signatures are often viewed as a hassle, but I personally think it is worth the trouble. If a dual signature account is opened, you need at least three signatories on the signature cards which would logically include the cubmaster, the chair, and the treasurer.

 

One of the first things I did as treasurer was to buy myself a large receipt book that automatically made copies. At every meeting I was taking in odd amounts of cash and had no way to keep track of it. I remember one of the parents objecting to being given a receipt, "That's not necessary." I responded that it was for my protection, not his. Treasurers should be prepared to render regular reports at committee meetings.

 

It becomes more serious beyond cub scouts because typically a lot more money is being handled, including funds held on deposit for major outings.

 

One of the problems with non profit organizations, particularly volunteer run organizations where nobody has enough time, is that temptation does arise. Few people, even the IRS, pay serious attention to the funds in non-profits. I recall an incident in Southern California about the time that I became pack treasurer, where the volunteer in charge of funds for a High School Band Booster Club embezzled tens of thousands of dollars over several years. She did some hard time for that. Simple checks and balances remove inefficiencies, temptations, and suspicions.

[scamp 10]

TigerMom,

 

I agree that you should be questioning the money arrangements for your pack. Afterall, the money belongs to the pack and also to the chartered organization (the chartered organization has the right to audit any accounts; after all it it THEIR unit). Like the other posters, I encourage you to start asking some questions and ask your Chartered Organization Representative, Unit Commissioner or District Executive for some help if necessary. Your council office should be able to provide you with the names of these people if you don't know.

 

Now a question that is sure to get some of the more experienced Scouters going...Why does a Cub Scout pack need to purchase a bunch of tents? The kind of camping that is authorized for Cub Scout packs, it seems to me, does not require an equipment purchase of that magnitude. Sure Cub Scout packs having camping opportunities and Webelos Dens are encouraged to go on overnighters, but because packs don't have monthly outings or are camping in authorized residential camps, most families provide their own equipment. For those that don't have their own, arrangements to borrow tents from a troop or other source are encouraged. Unless a pack has a lot of money to spare, it seems to me that those funds could serve the boys better in a different way. Am I way off base on this? It sure seems like an irresponsible use of pack funds to me.

 

Good luck, TigerMom. You have some tough questions to ask your Cubmaster!

[eisely 13]

I too was struck by the purchase of tents for a cub pack, although I didn't go into it. It strikes me as a very odd purchase for a cub unit.

 

Tents are controversial. There is an entire thread under "camping tips" on tents, and that did not involve cub scouts. Surely there are higher priorities for a cub scout pack. That is why there needs to be an active committee making these decisions, not just one individual, no matter how well intentioned.

[TIGERMOM 10]

the question of why the tents were purchased is exactly what made us start questioning how the decision to use the funds was made. every member of our pack has their own tent or made the effort to borrow one for the SINGLE campout we have done.

there was no immediate need for tents yet we do need the funds for everyday stuff such as badges,awards, craft materials etc. we are trying to implement changes now.

i want to thank everyone that responded. your help

is appreciated

[KL Wisconsin 10]

If the pack committee feels the tents are inappropriate for the pack, you may consider trying to sell them to a nearby troop with the stipulation that the pack gets to borrow them back once a year or something like that. Good luck.

[ScouterPaul 11]

I am a Webelos Leader with 18 Webelos. Our Pack purchased 5 2 man tents, a dining fly in addition to misc. camping equipment. We spent $750 which was drawn from the Packs acct. Our Webelos program is very outdoor oriented with 5 Webelos only campouts and 2 family campouts. We have a good number of disadvantaged Scouts who come from single parent homes and have no personal camping equipment. This purchase has help tremendously with keeping the boys active and hopefully preparing them to move on to the Troop.

[eisely 13]

Scouter Paul

 

Yours is an interesting and likely quite different case. Nobody is saying that a cub unit should never own tents. If the families cannot provide tentage, and the unit has a strong outdoor program, then by all means buy tents. The issue raised originally was not tents per se, but financial controls and accountability. Sounds like you have a great program. Keep it up.

[sctmom 11]

I thought about this thread last night when we had our pack committee/leader's meeting. Our cubmaster was unable to attend. But he had spoken to someone earlier in the day to say the pack needed a new pinewood derby track and he had found one he would like to purchase; please get approval to spend $400. One of the committee members said "I don't know why he thinks he needs approval." Boy, are we lucky. We all trust our cubmaster so much we would hand him the entire bank account and know he would only spend what had to be spent. I tried to quickly explain "He is supposed to ask for approval, that's the best policy."

 

Of course approval was unamious, and conversation quickly turned to could the old track be repaired and donated to another organization such as a church youth group, Boy's Club, YMCA, etc. We never even discussed repairing it for our own use -- we know we are lucky to have to the money to spend and would like to help others.

 

Wow, what a great pack and great group of adults I'm fortunate enough to be in.

 

[KL Wisconsin 10]

Sctmom

 

Isn't it great to know the system works. You can read so many problem situations on a forumsuch as this one, that it is often easy to forget that the scouting program is often such a positive and cooperative environment.