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Eagle Mentor Pin on Scout Uniform

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BSA uniform "regulations" ... never saw any Uniform regulations, regulations usually have a penalty for violation .... I did see a Insignia Guide once...

 

I would like to have a SM saber though (I'd be ok if it was broken down to a useful length). :)

 

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Got my first mentor pin. It's on my collar for now. But, I really like w's nameplate idea.

 

Wait, are nameplates in the IG?

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I just received my first mentor pin. It was a surprise and a great honor, but I'm not entirely sure about wearing it or not. I try not to wear anything that that hurts the functionality of the uniform itself. Heavy pins on the collar don't help with functionality. Many of the adult leaders in my troop wear their mentor or parent pins, and there's a level of expectation to it.

 

I understand that it's not proper uniforming to wear the pin on the Uniform. I'm trying to balance the uniforming regs with the fact that the mentor pin is a great honor and I feel like it's not a typical uniform violation.

 

I figured this thread could use a good healthy necrobumping.

 

Yours in Service,

Sentinel947

 

 

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S,

Congratulations. It's a confusing dilemma. I get the collar thing. Personally, I would have preferred something mor abstract .., like a little star to sew on your position patch. You could simply decide to reserve the pins for a dress jacket or a patch vest. But, when in Rome ...

 

Since we don't wear our uniform much besides meetings I've gotten used to a pin on the collar. If I don't want to be bothered with a shirt with too much bling, I throw on my venturing uniform. (Which, by the way, has stirred up some issues of its own. I may post about it when I cool down a little.)

 

Anyway, a uniform should strike a balance between individuality, conformity, and comfort.

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I thought I was going to wear it on the uniform. It's tradition in among the troop leaders in my unit to wear the mentor pins.

 

But I think I will keep it off the uniform. There isn't a proper place for it. I will happily wear it to church, and to other places where formal wear is required. But I'm not going to be that guy who takes it on himself to become the Uniform Police.

 

Yours in Service,

Sentinel947

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In 25+ years of scouting, I have encountered member of the the "uniform police" on several occasions. So far, I have always been able to respond with a 'helpfull' correction on their uniform patch placement etc. My favorite on that I often see is leadership knots sewn on upside down. Especially the Eagle knot really stands out if you know what to look for. I never say anything unless the wearer starts spouting off about 'correct' uniform guidelines.

 

Having said that, I encourage my son's and the scouts I know to get their uniform put together as correctly as possible. Its a respect thing. I don't think its respectfull to be overly critical of a scout (or scouter) that is trying to wear the uniform correctly but wants to wear a Eagle mentor or dad pin on uniform.

 

BTW: I wear my Eagle dad & mentor pin on my left pocket flap. I might move it to the WB name tag if I ever go that route. ;)

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Some people call me "uniform czar" but it's not something I usually individualize, as in your uniform is wrong. When I talk about the uniform, I do so generally to everyone. I never "criticize" anyone over their uniform, but on the rare occasion when I speak to an individual, I might say "you know, it's great you earned that World Conservation Award and want to display it proudly, but it would look better on your right pocket; it doesn't actually replace the WOSM seal." People appreciate a compliment and friendly guidance. There is another adult in our unit who I call Patch Police. The difference to me is very clear: He's obnoxious about patches and takes delight in deriding someone's uniform issue at inopportune moments mid-conversation, or bluntly, or chidingly. When he gets under someone's skin, they give him a dirty look; when I mention something, people thank me. When someone gives me a hard time about an issue on my uniform (I'm not perfect) I laugh with them; when someone gives him a hard time, he dresses them down.

At the end of the day, there's a right way to wear everything, and its in the book. But if you want to wear something improperly on purpose, it's you looking silly, not me, so I'm not going to spend my time worrying about it. The only time I insist is formal functions, and even then it's not like someone can just fix a patch on the spot, so what's the point being obnoxious on the spot?

 

I will say there's nothing like the uniform to make scouts silly. I once had a SPL running around at an Eagle court of honor telling all the boys to take off their merit badge sashes; I asked him just what he thought he was doing. "Today is about Johnny Scout, it's his big day and my dad [the SM] said it's rude for everyone else to be showing off their merit badges." I had a laugh and told him he couldn't be any more wrong.

 

BSA uniform "regulations" ... never saw any Uniform regulations' date=' regulations usually have a penalty for violation .... I did see a Insignia Guide once... I would like to have a SM saber though (I'd be ok if it was broken down to a useful length). :) [/quote']

That's cute, let's take it to its conclusion: The Guide to Advancement is just a guide. The Guide to Safe Scouting is just a guide. The Youth Protection Guidelines are just guidelines. That being the case I can deny a scout his Eagle award because his Pos'n of Responsibility was Scribe, but that's not really an important job, and next campout the boys can set a 20-foot signal tower on fire, and then we can all haze the new kids. Can't break a guideline, right? Right.

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This is a sensitive topic,and I think it's important that we respect everyone's opinion. However, I feel I need to point out two things. 1. The Uniform Guide is simply a collection of guidelines, not a code, or rule book. 2. The scout program is flexible, allowing us quite a bit of freedom in achieving the "Aims of Scouting", via the "Methods of Scouting". If a small bit if shiny metal causes scouts, and/or scouters, to fully embrace the program and become good citizens, with strong values, who will lead us into a brighter tomorrow; then I hope many young men will present these pins to their mentors,and the mentors will wear the pin with pride, where other scouts will see it, and strive to place another beside it.

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This is a sensitive topic' date='and I think it's important that we respect everyone's opinion. However, I feel I need to point out two things. 1. The Uniform Guide is simply a collection of guidelines, not a code, or rule book.[/quote']

Again, regardless of where you stand on wearing the Mentor Pin anywhere or nowhere, that is a dead end argument. The use of the word "guide" does not abdicate its authority. Would you seriously argue that the Guide to Advancement, Guide to Safe Scouting, or Youth Protection Guidelines are not "rules" or "codes" and can just be ignored because the title says guide instead of commandments? Would you agree if you saw a grown man walking out of the boys' shower and he brushed you off with "'Separate accommodations' Oh you mean that guide not rule, give me a break!" No. So let's be serious.

The Guide to Awards and Insignia is the only answer to any question regarding "can I wear this..." or "where should I wear this..." Does that mean that anyone who isn't following those rules should be cashiered? No. It's very simple: You are physically able to be a special snowflake and wear the uniform any way you want, but that does not mean you are not wrong, and don't expect anyone to pat you on the head for it. This sort of word game is simply sophomoric. You wanna be wrong, go nuts, but own it.

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Some people can't see the forest for the trees. Uniform polices can't be compared to polices designed to ensure the health, and safety of program participants. BSA clearly views these things differently, ask any SE how he would react to a uniform violation, and a case of scout abuse ... sophomoric conversation no, instructive discussion, yes. You need to put your focus on the aims of scouting, and while absolutely ensuring the health, safety, and well being of all program participants, do what it takes to accomplish those aims.

 

An image that I always recall at such times is a venerable scouter rising from the table during s heated discussion, picking up a scout handbook, flexing it, and saying "it's flexible, just like the program". In my time in scouting I've seen countless changes to rules, polices, and requirements, but not in scouting's Aims or Methods. How would change ever happen if no one tried anything new, never did things a different way? We are allowed to think for ourselves here, even encouraged to do so. Oh, program deviation, including uniform, is supported by BSA policy, there are even procedures for it /boggle. Loosen the collar a bit, it's good for you.

 

 

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Some people can't see the forest for the trees. Uniform polices can't be compared to polices designed to ensure the health' date=' and safety of program participants. BSA clearly views these things differently, ask any SE how he would react to a uniform violation, and a case of scout abuse ... sophomoric conversation no, instructive discussion, yes. You need to put your focus on the aims of scouting, and while absolutely ensuring the health, safety, and well being of all program participants, do what it takes to accomplish those aims. An image that I always recall at such times is a venerable scouter rising from the table during s heated discussion, picking up a scout handbook, flexing it, and saying "it's flexible, just like the program". In my time in scouting I've seen countless changes to rules, polices, and requirements, but not in scouting's Aims or Methods. How would change ever happen if no one tried anything new, never did things a different way? We are allowed to think for ourselves here, even encouraged to do so. Oh, program deviation, including uniform, is supported by BSA policy, there are even procedures for it /boggle. Loosen the collar a bit, it's good for you. [/quote']

 

My collar is always loose; it is against uniform policy to button the collar. ;)

 

Your argument is that the use of the word "guide" means it is not a rule. Now your position is that "guides" are rules sometimes, but sometimes "guides" are "guides." What an interesting world you live in. But I expect nothing less than you to change your position in regards to any other "guide", because after all that's your stance: shifting sands, whatever floats your boat, man.

As I said, I'm not one to bother anyone about their uniform, you're free to be wrong, but be a big boy and know you're wrong.

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Since it was asked, and with no idea who the "uniform Police" are in any area:

 

The normal BSa practice is to couch advise in terms of "should" and rules in terms of "shall.  But "normal" does not mean universal, and BSA often is poor about communication.

 

"The following pages contain our uniform policy as taken from the Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America. The chapters contain applications of the regulations to each program area. Neither the Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America, the policy, nor the program applications may be added to or changed in any way unless approved by the National Executive Board of the Boy Scouts of America through its Program Impact Department."

...

Official Uniforms Clause 2.

The official uniforms authorized as evidence of official relationship to the Boy Scouts of America shall be those approved by action of the Executive Board of the Boy Scouts of America from time to time, as illustrated and correctly described in the handbooks, catalogs, and other official publications of the Boy Scouts of America.

...

Clause 4. Prohibition of Alteration or Imitation.

(a) No alteration of, or additions to, the official uniforms, as described in the official publications, or the rules and regulations covering the wearing of the uniform and the proper combinations thereof on official occasions, may be authorized by any Scouting official or local council or any local executive board or committee, except the Executive Board of the Boy Scouts of America after consideration by Council Operations.

...

Clause 9.

All badges and insignia shall remain the property of the Boy Scouts of America subject to recall for cause by the Corporation or its duly authorized representative.

...

Eagle Mentor pin, gold tone, No. 14123; sterling silver, No. 14127.

For non-parent who was instrumental in the Scout earning his Eagle; nonuniform wear."

 

Fairly clear by BSA standards, and I strongly disagree with the rule.  Imagine the intended recipient running away from the Eagle Scout yelling, "Don't pin it on! Don't pin it on."

 

That is right up there with hanging up on a Scout who calls asking if you will counsel him on a Merit Badge.  After all, one-on-one telephone conversations are expressly prohibited.

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