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Military uniform items with scouting?

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Stosh,

 

I think the post WWII experience of a certain non-US youth group drove BSA forever away from military uniforms. (Boy was that a PC spin to avoid Godwin's Law).

 

Your provision as a re-enactor was 10 USC 772 f. A re-enactment, at the end of the day, is theater. If you will recall, though, I questioned your use of weapons and sidearms at the time. I think that goes to what Beavah has told us more than once: Internal consistency in BSA documents? Don't be too sure about that!

 

The 10 USC 772 j 1 provision, my belief, is now interpreted as BSA will use its own distinctive uniform.

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John

 

There is a HUGE difference between cammo clothes, navy peacoats and an official complete and current uniform of any branch of the armed forces, one is protected and one is not. I was in the military as well, received the same paperwork and you are misinterpreting your discharge paperwork concerning this matter. Cammos and BDU's alone are not considered OFFICIAL military dress. BSA restrictions were created SOLELY because National BSA did not want the public to get the idea that boy scouts were affiliated with or part of the armed services, period. So we can disagree but you are incorrect in your interpretation, talk to your local recruiter, he will set you straight in the matter.

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John,

 

Yes the reenactors are definitely historical theater. Not a problem, we do any era both military and civilian. We just chose CW because of the large number of available events.

 

I totally agree that the BSA has made a conscious decision to make their uniforms non-military for the BSA program because of what you have pointed out. However, they have also made a conscious effort to retain the Sea Scout naval uniform probably because of some backlash along the way. As far as the para-military aspects of scouting, simply sleeping outdoors and knowing military skills like map reading, navigation, shooting, etc. will forever keep scouting under some sort of military cloud. After all scout is a military term. :)

 

I guess I'm too much into developing effective future citizens, I haven't worried too much about what other people think about the uniform.

 

Stosh

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I admire those who served out of personal commitment in the US military; in retrospect, I wish I had.

 

However, I feel that for every person who might be attracted to a military-esque BSA, you would probably chill away two others. . . who might not like the notion.

 

The BSA is about the outdoors.

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Thank you.

 

Not long ago, while visitng camp, I saw a group of Scouts out on a hike. They were in a wide variety of military surplus gear, including pistol belts and various attachmants. They looked ridiculous, and they were certainly out "playing Army." I used to do that when I was pre-Scout age, and was very proud of my gear. I shudder to think what people perceive when this pseudo band of brothers walks into Burger King. I'd be embarassed when they found out they were Boy Scouts. What would the public think of our organization? For that reason, I'm against Boy Scouts wearing any military garb in public. Some of that equipment is good stuff (I'd sure hope so!), but not out in public.

Yes, I know it's none of my business what kids in other units wear. As for me and my unit, we will wear BSA uniforms.

BDPT00

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I've worn my BSA uniform out in public for many years now and have never been mistaken for any sort of military personnel. I know how to survive in the outdoors, how to handle a gun, how to handle a knife, how to find my way around using map and compass, etc. etc. etc. And just because some military personnel knows what I know doesn't make them a Scout. :)

 

Stosh

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Unless they are 19 Deltas... (Cavalry Scout). Then they are scouts. ;-)

 

On a serious note, I think the overall commonality, worldwide, of the crackerjack uniform for the Naval Service gave it the impetus for Sea Scouting.

 

I don't know if folks have noticed, but the classic blue dungaree shipboard utility seems to be slowly winding its way out of the military system. More and more Naval shipboard people are wearing the Navy's own version of battle dress. In fact, each service now has its own proprietary utility uniform.

 

Your tax dollars at work ...

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John,

 

Yeah, don't get me started on the different utility uniform stuff. Every branch has their own, with the Marines having two, and the Navy having three. Why the Navy couldn't have stuck with the MARPAT is beyond me. Even the USCG has their own variation (actually two, if you count the tri-color desert still in use for overseas deployment by them). Then there is Multi-Cam, which is in use by several Spec Ops units (and thanks to Congress, will most likely be required for all soldiers heading to Afghanistan).

 

It bugs me just a little. I understand there are different jobs being performed, yadda yadda. I understand the Navy's blue/grey thing, and I can see maybe 3 different patterns. But 10 are in use right now...10!

 

Sorry.

 

/sidetracking rant

 

 

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I'm thinking the only way a scout can wear military and BSA at the same time is if he's wearing the BSA uniform inappropriately. Wearing the scout shirt and military camo pants is not wearing the scout uniform. Wearing the scout shirt and black dress pants is not wearing the scout uniform either.

 

Stosh

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I agree to some extent with the dead horse comments, but the original post in this thread asked about "military uniform items." There is no blanket prohibition on things like that, in fact some of them are quite useful in the field. Look at the Northern Tier publications - they recommend "jungle boots." If I'm not mistaken, NT is run by National, so certainly someone would have nixed that by now if then intent was to ban use of military items at any time. Olive drab BDU pants are hard to tell from uniform pants from more than 20 feet away and are certainly more durable in the field. Military surplus duffle bags? I can't tell you how many scouts I have seen hauling gear to camp in those.

 

I agree with the others who suggest that the intent is to avoid the perception that BSA is a paramilitary organization.

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I came across some pants advertised in-store as BDU and, apart from the lack of zip-off lower pant-legs, you wouldn't need to be more than 5 feet away to mistake them for Scout pants. Judging by the stitching, etc., they appeared to be much better able to withstand the rigors of camp.

I hope there is a common-sense answer to this question; perhaps military specific equipment, military identification badges, military camo designs etc., not allowed whereas generic, appropriately colored clothing items are allowed?

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VigilEagle04...

 

I'm just an old Field Artillerist.

 

I never had a disco group do a recruiting video for me...

 

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John, I must say, thanks for the laugh to get me started this morning.

 

As for the rest of the thread, yeah, BDU pants are something I have found to be much more durable than the Scout pants. That being said, if I'm just at a meeting, I will be wearing the Scout pants. Going for an outing? BDUs. Service project? BDUs. There are just some things they work better for.

 

I actually wear a green boonie as well. The front has the world crest on it, the back has my troop numerals (for those who had them in the service, it's in place of the cat eyes), and I have different pins on the loops. I have some spoof knots on it too. Some of the Scouts have mimicked mine, usually the world crest and the numbers are the main match, then they will have an AoL pin and their rank pin, and maybe a couple of others. It's sort of became the unofficial/official troop headgear. I always get a kick out of new Scouts asking about my pins, some of which are older than they are. I may not be that old, but I know in those moments, I feel significantly older.

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If the BSA has a rule on this I assure you it would be published. When you get down to it we are supposed to wear scout uniforms.

 

Perspective: If cammo was banned in scouting I doubt if national would allow 30,000 boys to wear the free cammo boonie hats given out by the military at Jambo.

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