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ScoutDad2001

Should Unit Numerals touch Council Patch if No Veteran Unit Bar?

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The offical Uniform Inspection sheet (34283) says in the "Left Sleeve" section:

"Council shoulder emblem, unit numeral and veteran unit bar are worn as shown snug up and touching each other."

 

If a unit has chosen to NOT wear a veteran bar, shouldn't the unit numeral then be touching the council patch, so that it adheres to the requirement to be "snug up and touching each other? Or should there be a space left between them?

 

This is a grey area that is subject to interpretation in our quarters.

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I've always seen "snug". Looks neater and cleaner, IMHO.

 

Before this most current uniform change, we'd have everything from Council patch on down touching each other ... Council patch, vetern unit bar (if any), unit numbers, position patch and trained strip.

 

In the case of a district or council volunteer where there is no unit number, then a gap is left between the council patch and position patch.

 

My $.02..YMMV.

 

 

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I can't comment on more recent publications, but my 2005 Insignia Guide, which I've been meaning to replace, explicitly states that the Unit number is worn touching the council strip if the veteran unit bar is not worn.

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YEP everything is touching on a UNIT scout and scouter in an ODL as well as Venturer and leader in their uniform. The CSP is pos. 1, vet bar is pos. 2A unit # is pos. 2, POR is pos. 3, and trained strip is pos. 4

 

 

Council and national level folks don't have the POR touching the CSP, the POR remains in the pos. 3 location EXCEPT for commisssioners wearing their arrowhead on the short sleeve shirt, then everything moves up so that the arrowehead can eb worn.

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"This is a grey area that is subject to interpretation in our quarters."

 

This is NOT a gray area.

 

Unit numbers have ALWAYS been worn touching the CSP. The office patch should touch the numbers, and the trained strip should touch it. There should be NO gaps between the patches on your left sleeve.

 

The only exception is for non-unit leaders who do NOT wear unit numbers, and must leave a gap where they would be between the CSP and office patch.

 

HOWEVER, on the right sleeve, most patches do NOT touch one another.

 

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Well, now that we have the Centennial uniform, it's certainly not as clear as it once was. While the top 3 positions are the same, the POR patch is now worn on the sleeve pocket, the trained patch on the sleeve pocket flap as opposed to under the POR patch...

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not as clear as it once was

 

It's still pretty clear.

 

From the 2009-2010 Insignia Guide, which does have the new uniform sleeve style.

 

"Unit number, cloth, green on tan, Nos. 10400 throught 10408 (last digit indicates the the unit number for 0 through 8); for unit number 9, order 10406, Boy Scout and Boy Scout leader, left sleeve, position 2, touching council shoulder emblem if veteran unit bar is not worn." [emphasis added]

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The isignia guide shows the patches bumping up to each other and that's the pattern I follow for my uniform. However, I've see many leaders and scouts with small gaps between the patches and they look just fine. If the gaps are too large, it can look awkward.

 

The key is neatness in appearance - patches on straight, not crooked, and placed in the correct order on the sleeve.

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As others have stated, it's pretty clear the patches should be touching. I've never left space between the council shoulder patch and unit numerals -- generally don't bother with the veteran unit bar although we are going to put it on the special Centennial patches I'm having made (integrated council / troop numerals all in the classic white-on-red).

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Since this thread is revived, can anyone tell me of another occasion that the unit number does not touch the CSP besides when worn with a vet bar? I know that BROWNSEA 22 participants and graduates were authorized a BROWNSEA Strip between the CSP and the 22 during the course, their regular unit number after graduation. If memory serves. Or maybe it was upon graduating that we wore the BROWNSEA strip between the CSP and unit number? I hate getting old ;)

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Above post should have read, "...can anyone tell me of another occasion IN THE PAST, that the unit number does not touch the CSP besides when worn with a vet bar?

 

Instead of "...can anyone tell me of another occasion that the unit number does not touch the CSP besides when worn with a vet bar?"

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Just to satisfy my own curiosity...

Can you produce an Insignia Guide ever authorizing anything other than a veteran bar to be worn in that position?

BDPT00

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BDP,

No I cannot, and trust me I wish I could. Closest I could find to any type of link is this one http://www.johnedelmann.com/brownsea22.html and that is more a memoir than anything.

 

I know Black Eagle posted that the BROWNSEA Strip goes between the unit number and POR. Never have seen it like that before. So I am questionable about his info. Also he has the dates wrong for the course as I attended the course after 1982 which he states was the last year.

 

http://www.infinetivity.com/~blkeagle/brownsea.htm

 

Also according to this website http://www.troop30.org/uniforming.htm

 

it is worn only for the duration of the course. Again never heard that one before and everyone I knew who completed the course wore their strip and usually their smokey bear that the council issued to them upon completion of the course. The smokey was a council tradition I'm told.

 

Now there was another site that gave great detail of the course, but A) only gave a description of the patch and not the location and B) gave a story I never heard of why teh course was Called Brownsea 22. Something about happening dfor the second time in the second half of the world or some story. What we were told was that it was in rememberance of the 22 folks who attended the original Borwnsea: 20 scouts, BP, and BP's nephew who served as an ADC to BP b/c he was not old enough to be a scout (first Cub Scout Perhaps?).

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