Unform Required

[bilgerat 10]

I have trouble believing this, but I'll ask anyway...

 

Are Boy Scouts required to have a uniform by BSA policy?

[Beavah 205]

No.

 

If they choose to wear a uniform, they should wear it correctly (meanin' to represent scouting at scouting functions, not to endorse political candidates or products, that sort of thing).

 

There's no requirement to own a uniform just like there's no requirement to own a Scout Handbook or a backpack. They're just tools. Good tools. Useful tools. But just tools.

 

Uniforming is a Method of Boy Scouting. Like all da methods, some units do it better than others. Just like some units do more Outdoors or more Youth Leadership or more Advancement than others. And, just like Youth Leadership, or Outdoors, or Advancement, you'll run across some adults who don't believe in da Uniform Method or think it's just fine to go part way.

 

Beavah

 

[RememberSchiff 3662]

No, but

 

Without a uniform or what someone declares to be the "proper" uniform, a scout might be turned away from the following:

 

Most troop state their own uniform policies

National Jamboree (some councils explicitly require the new Centennial uniform - two sets!)

BSA High Adventure Camps

Most scout summer camps

OA

Board of Reviews

 

Another $0.02,

(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

[Eagle92 110]

Scrin,

First Welcome to the boards.

 

now to answer your question. While a uniform is not required, as mentioned previously there are some activities that do require one.

 

here is my take on the uniform policy. Every scout should strive to have a complete uniform BUT SHOULD NEVER BE TURNED AWAY FORM A UNIT ACTIVITY B?C OF ONE!

 

I always say, and told my Tigers last nite, that the most improtant items are the handbook, shirt, patches, neckercheif and slide. Let the scouts EARN their uniform parts by saving allowances, reciving uniform items as christmas and Birthday presents. etc.

 

ALSO 'expereinced" uniforms are AWESOME and can be obtained via ebay, thrift stores, Craigslist, and some unit's uniform closets. Heck my sone is wwearing my old slide and hat.

[JerseyScout 10]

Troops can also solicite donations of Scout uniforms from alumni or Scouts who outgrow theirs and then pass them out to newer Scouts. We usually have several "Class A" shirts lying around our meeting place that can be loaned short or long term.

[bilgerat 10]

Good stuff.

 

Always interesting to look into the established "policy" on something vs. what is accepted as good practice or even folklore.

 

If I'm reading your inputs correctly, technically there is no BSA policy stating that a Scout must have a uniform. With that said, if the uniform is worn, it must be to the standard established in the Scout handbook.

 

Troops may not create their own version of the uniform, though many will "turn a blind eye" to the standards.

 

BOR's, Encampments, etc. will often specify the uniform requirement for participation (Class A or Class B). Aside from the all the great reasons that a Scout should be dressed in the BSA-defined uniform, if a Scout appears at such events and is not wearing a uniform... by BSA policy, can he be asked to leave?

 

If a Scout comes to a merit badge college and doesn't wear his uniform, can he be turned away iaw some official BSA policy? Same for Eagle BOR, Camporee, etc.?

 

I have seen some of the other thread discussions on these topics. Once again, just trying to sort through people's "feelings" about the issue vs. official BSA policy.

 

If I'm reading the thread correctly, since there is no BSA policy stating that he must have a uniform, the answer would be that he may participate - even without a uniform (not desired, but permitted). On the other hand, if he does wear the uniform, it must be complete as defined in the Scout handbook.

 

Is that a fair summation?

 

Many of us have strong feelings about wearing the uniform, I'm sure. Just trying to separate the "official" BSA position from what most of us would agree is a strong desire to have them in a uniform.

 

Thanks to all for your patience...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I appreciate the input here on Scouter. net. Thanks to each for your

[ntrog8r 19]

For the official BSA position, check the following links:

 

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/InsigniaGuide.aspx (Insignia Guide, Intro and Table of contents)

 

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/InsigniaGuide/01.aspx (Official Policy)

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/InsigniaGuide/02.aspx (you may be interested in Clause 4 and 6)

 

The official stuff is there for any who may be interested. Opinions in how to implement the policy and this METHOD of Scouting vary greatly. I try to set the example and "...promote the wearing of the correct complete uniform on all suitable occasions..." as stated in the official policy. I also find (most) of the unofficial patches funny, you know the ones - untrainable, etc.

 

I do get irritated when some "elder" of Scouting lectures folks about the way its gonna be while they're standing there in a uniform they know is wrong but feel they have the authority to change because of who they are. Usually these same guys are also wrong about the other aspects of the program they're lecturing on.

 

I've also seen great Scouters who are really focused on delivering to the Scouts and community. They have been fully and correctly uniformed or not uniformed. I have rarely seen great, inspirational leaders who are partly uniformed. But I have seen them.

 

So it guess its the "I'm better than thou" attitude that really gets on my nerves, uniformed or not. (This message has been edited by ntrog8r)

[GernBlansten 10]

A better question might be, should the uniform be required?

[Buffalo Skipper 13]

Or another spin on it, what do you do with a scout who has a complete uniform but refuses to wear it?

[sherminator505 10]

"Or another spin on it, what do you do with a scout who has a complete uniform but refuses to wear it?"

 

This is one of my pet peeves. If there is a good reason why a Scout is not in uniform, that's one thing. But when I am faced with this scenario, I am not likely to be impressed.

[Beavah 205]

Hiya scrinmemphis,

 

Yeh probably need to get clear in your head what yeh mean by "BSA Policy". The BSA Rules & Regulations define policy. Some other documents define policy for within the BSA, but not for what happens within troops which are owned by Chartered Partners. Some other documents describe program guidance and practices. It's complimicated. There is no universal "BSA Policy" document. And the editing ain't all that great.

 

Generally speakin, uniforming is part of the last group - it's part of program materials, which give guidance to various groups about how to implement the program.

 

If I'm reading your inputs correctly, technically there is no BSA policy stating that a Scout must have a uniform.

 

Not technically. Really!

 

With that said, if the uniform is worn, it must be to the standard established in the Scout handbook.

 

I wouldn't use "must." I'd use, "for full alignment with the program intent, it should be worn as defined in the Handbook and other program documents."

 

Troops may not create their own version of the uniform, though many will "turn a blind eye" to the standards.

 

Depends what yeh mean. Troops can choose to create a whole new uniform. And they can establish local customs about neckers, hats, patch wear, optional patches and such.

 

BOR's, Encampments, etc. will often specify the uniform requirement for participation (Class A or Class B).

 

As discussed in da other thread, BOR's sometimes do, but ultimately that is adding to the requirements and not allowed. Encampments, camporees and such very rarely specify uniform requirements. It's more common in trainings (WB, NYLT) because part of da training is learning how to use the Uniform Method.

 

Aside from the all the great reasons that a Scout should be dressed in the BSA-defined uniform, if a Scout appears at such events and is not wearing a uniform... by BSA policy, can he be asked to leave?

 

For a BOR, no. For da other things, BSA policy does not apply. It's the policy of the troop or the council which matters. Troops and councils are separate entities, and may require different things for participation in their events and on their land. So a troop certainly can require all the boys to be in uniform for a trip.

 

If a Scout comes to a merit badge college and doesn't wear his uniform, can he be turned away iaw some official BSA policy? Same for Eagle BOR, Camporee, etc.?

 

Again, there's no BSA policy. Whoever is running the MB College (troop or council) can set its own expectations. Same for camporee.

 

For an Eagle BOR, most of us think a scout should be in uniform. Most will "strongly encourage" it. Ultimately, a uniform is not required, and cannot be required. The boy would likely prevail on appeal if that was the only reason he was denied rank.

 

If I'm reading the thread correctly, since there is no BSA policy stating that he must have a uniform, the answer would be that he may participate - even without a uniform (not desired, but permitted).

 

Generally, for most things, yest.

 

On the other hand, if he does wear the uniform, it must be complete as defined in the Scout handbook.

 

No. It's desired. Recommended. Strongly encouraged.

 

Beavah

 

 

[GernBlansten 10]

If the uniform is so important to the program, we should make it a requirement for participation.

 

The analogy that sport teams require the uniform is appropriate. If you want to participate, you buy the full, complete uniform. And you wear it if you want to play.

 

But BSA doesn't do that. It leaves it up to the unit. Well, this just creates angst. It drives us apart instead of bringing us together. Fully uniformed troops look down on less uniformed units. Less uniformed units look down on fully uniformed ones. BSA could solve this with one additional requirement.

 

 

[eghiglie 10]

Beavh's reply is great!

 

 

[John-in-KC 311]

Part of the problem is "A Scout is Thrifty."

 

There's some tough times going on right now. I know of a kid ... he just moved out of my neighborhood. He and his Mom are moving someplace where the costs are less. She worked it out with the bank, and walked away from her home ahead of foreclosure proceedings.

 

The boy wants to be in Boy Scouting. I introduced him to the Troop down the street. One problem: The odd job money he's earning? It's going to help buy the groceries for him and Mom (Dad is out of the picture economically).

 

This young man is being thrifty, but there is not an angel to help him the rest of the way. There used to be folks who would help youth out so they could be kids ... a few are still out there, but many are gone.

 

I like the new uniform far better than the DLR. It does what a uniform needs to do... be capable of being in the outdoors month after month. I remember my own youth uniforms ... I started Boy Scouting with a cotton twill shirt; when I sized up around 14, it became the in thing ... "permanent press." It didn't take abuse of camping nearly as well.

 

If we were in camp, uniforms were ok, when we took to the field, they were left behind.

 

I'm hopeful for the complete new uniform I want youth to like it, but we need to be asking youth constantly for input. We have tools to do that, including OA and the National Venturing Cabinet. Why not use them?

[SSScout 1615]

How far we have come...

As noted in "Matching Mountains with the Boy Scout Uniform" by Edward F. Reimer, c.1929::

 

""(from the label sewed into the uniform shirt, pant and short:

"This garment is purchased with the understanding that it is for the use of (name) a duly enrolled member ( ..) patrol of Troop No. (...) of (...) of the Boy Scouts of America. Any other use of it will violate the rules of the Boy Scouts of America and the contract of the merchant under which it is possible to sell the garment at its present low price. No one who believes in fair play will attempt to violate this agreement.

Any other boy than a Boy Scout who attempts to purchase or wear this uniform will be regarded by other boys and the officers of the Boy Scouts of America as an imposter. /s/ Boy Scouts of America, Two Park Ave. New York City /s/ Sigmund Eisner Co., Official National Outfitter, Red Bank, N.J."

 

And...(pg.153) "No matter whether the boy is poor or well-to-do, he should earn his own uniform and equipment by doing work at a reasonable wage, and it should be impressed upon him that he must work fairly and honestly - that he should not do some very small thing and receive a high rate of pay from parent or guardian... if each boy pays for his uniform... the problem will be largely solved whether the boys are rich or poor."

"We have noticed, too, that an earned uniform lasts better than more expensive clothes..."

 

(pg.58) "So he reads about Scouting, he dreams about Scouting, and he waits for his birthday clock to strike twelve (Ed: TWELVE!!) for then he can at last put on the cherished khaki uniform (this in acordance with the unwavering rule that the boy must be twelve years old and be a registered Scout before he can secure and wear his Scout Uniform)."

 

(pg.59) " Chief Scout Executive James E. West says " Remember the uniform you wear cries aloud 'I am a Scout'. As I have said so often, it is not necessary to wear the uniform to be a Scout. It is much more important that you live Scouting in your daily life... If you do get a uniform, see that it is correctly worn... for in the uniform, you stand for the Boy Scouts of America".

 

 

Umm,mmm, MMM! 1929...