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cardinal50

Adults wearing uniforms to boost ego?

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Beavah - you state that we are a civilian organization and thus a comparison to the military/services is inappropriate.

 

Well, I agree to a degree. We are a civilian organization but we are a uniformed civilian organization. A comparison might be the Catholic Church. Lay individuals, archbishops, diocesan bishops, Cardinals, Pope, decons, lay, etc. all have "uniforms" that they wear when doing "church stuff" so to speak. Are they egotists to wear their appropriate "uniform?" Does wearing "funny hats" make them more effective in their roles? In a way, it does.

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acco

 

I think that was what Beavah was getting at, appropriate versus shoving it in someones face, but he is capable of answering for himself. As far as WB at your troop meeting, believe me most of the kids could care less, and it seems to be a desperate cry of, Hey kids look at me and what I did! versus calling attention to what your scouts have done, it is the BOYS program after all. The adults can appreciate it much more, especially those who have gone through the same experience.

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Well, first of all, the WB ceremony was held immediately after the troop meeting and all of the Scouts stayed on to witness it. That either disproves your theory that they could care less or possibly it was because my wife had cake an punch available afterwards. :)

 

I think you give the Scouts too little credit.

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Yah, acco, I can't really offer any perspective on da Catholic ceremonial getup and rigamarole. I'm sure someone finds it meaningful. From da perspective of an outsider, it sure seems like a lot of excess pomp and ego, especially on da part of your episcopate. Sometimes it seems like it borders on a form of idolatry, eh? Da message seems like it's "look at me, obey me!" rather than "I'm just a fellow human, let's focus together on God, obey God."

 

Just sayin' ;)

 

But unless I misunderstand, I don't think da Catholic ceremonial finery includes personal awards, eh? It's just stuff that signifies role. It's da equivalent of wearing a plain uniform with a Scoutmaster patch, so that people can recognize your role in da service. In fact, I think most of da Catholic religious orders prohibit da wearing of personal recognitions, do they not?

 

I agree with BadenP, I really find adult awards at youth COHs distasteful. Our time with da youth should be focused on them, and celebrate their accomplishments, not our own. I've sat through a few "beadings" done at troop events that only bored the kids or over-hyped da adult award (and thereby outshone the youth awards).

 

Here's something to think about, eh? Do yeh do ice cream after the meeting for a boy who earns First Class? A boy who has earned First Class or Star has put more time into that work than an adult who has done Woodbadge and worked his ticket. It was probably proportionately harder for da boy than da man. Yet yeh honored the adult more.

 

Is that da message we want to send? Do we as adults really want/need/deserve more time in da spotlight than the boys? Do we really have to have more ribbons and dongles on our uniforms than the boys can have on theirs?

 

Beavah

 

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

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Your right, I put up with pain in the butt and lazy parents during the year so I can walk around in uniform and at time wear all my awards. I take time out of my busy life to attend round tables and troop committee meetings so I can walk around in uniform and at time wear all my awards. I take time away from my wife to camp and freeze my butt off so I can walk around in uniform and at time wear all my awards. I advise and help teach scouts so I can walk around in uniform and at time wear all my awards. Yes I do all this to boost my ego.

If you like to throw around your holier then thou attitude please go ahead but only if it makes you feel better.

 

Mark M.

 

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I will continue to put everything I earn on my uniform. I don't put anything unauthorized on it, but if I earn it, and it's BSA, it goes on. Including on my District Committee uniform.

 

Now, do I wear my uniform to training events for adults and DC meetings and roundtables i may wander into? Not at all. Do I wear it when I go on a camping trip with the OA or visit the camp during the summer? You better believe it.

 

Just how I do things.

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Like Vigil, I too have worn everything I have earned that is allowed by BSA. But I am slowly thinking the "less is more approach" may be better. At this point as long as it is authorized and in the correct position, I am fine with it.

 

See I was in one of those troops that was big on the uniform method with weekly uniform inspections. (And yes we used the other methods, esp outdoors as we were a "hiking and camping troop.") the uniform was ingrained on us from the older scouts and passed down to succeeding generations of scouts. If was a scouting function, except for a few occasions, you better be in uniform. PLC meetings, in uniform. as an adult going to RT and other meetings, you are representing the troop, so be in uniform.

 

And part of that was wearing everything you earned, weather youth or adult, as appropriate. And that has carried over to today. Went to jambo, you wore it. In the OA, wear your flap. Went through Brownsea, wear the strip, etc. But again I am reevalutaing.

 

That's because the problem I am seeing now, esp on the CS level that I am working on now, is that folks are wearing all kinds of stuff on their uniforms, most not authorized. I see folks with all kinds of dangles, lapel pins, feathers,two and three temp patches (don't ask), ad nauseum. It getting to the point of ridiculousness IMHO. And to be honest I look at my uniforms now and ask " is this starting to be ridiculous." And even though all my patches are authorized and in the correct positions ( hey I'm the guy who used a two compasses to get the the patch JUST RIGHT ;) ) , And I am coming to the answer yes. Especially the anniversary ring.

 

I am in the process of updating my sea scout uniform, and the "plain Jane" look does look a lot better. The only changes I would like to see in the Sea Scout unis is the World Crest, as that is the one emblem All scouts around the world is suppose to wear, on all uniforms, and the CSPs back on the working uniforms. Hopefully the powers that be will do that.

 

I admit I am not going to change all my uniforms at this point. Some are so old that when I tried taking off my regional insignia from my period as a DE, there was definate shading differences. I had to buy a new shirt altogether for my Sea Scout uni as taking off some insignia left shading differences. But any new shirts i get will go the KISS route.

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Do I have a problem with a Scouter wearing a metric ton of square knots? No, I don't. I'm pretty sure that they know how it looks and what some of their fellow Scouters might think about that, but they're adults and it's their perrogative. Now, I do have a problem with two things:

 

1) Scouters who wear two of the same knot with different devices (example - Scouter's Key and Commissioners Key). Aren't you supposed to wear the two devices on the same knot if the knots are otherwise identical?

 

2) Scouters who can't tell you what all the knots are when you walk up and ask them. Seriously, I have actually experienced this, and I had a very hard time shaking the notion that the Scouter I was dealing with was a complete flake.

 

How many of you have seen either of these happen?

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Now, I did say what I did with my current uniforms in mind. Currently, I have only four knots on there, Eagle (NESA Life), AoL, Youth Religious, and James E. West. The first three, I will always wear, no matter the uniform, no matter how much I reduce the uniform down. If I were to receive an Award of Merit, be it UL, District, or any of the Silver animals. If I were to receive the DSA from the OA. Pretty much anything in the two meritorious categories, I would wear, regardless of the uniform.

 

Training awards, I have no idea. Maybe only ones specific to the uniform. Like if I were a CS leader, I'd wear the CS leader knots on that uniform, but not on my District Committee or BS leader uniform. I'll see when the time gets there. I will probably always keep a uniform that has them all on it though, just because, hey, I'll admit a little ego boost now and then is nice, lol.

 

I will always wear my Jambo patch, lodge flap, Founders Award device, and all the standards on the left side though. It's just the knots that tend to get overwhelming at times IMO. I don't care about the centennial ring, or any of that stuff, it's unnecessary to me. Knowing someone on the national Venturing committee, and seeing what he has going on, I understand it can look ridiculous. But that man is also rather humble too, so I don't see it as an ego boost for him. you never know though.(This message has been edited by VigilEagle04)

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As a Unit Commissioner, I am in uniform a lot, including commissioners meetings, Round Tables, and the monthly visits for my four units. So, I am in uniform a lot.

 

This past winter I too started to reduce the "bling" on the uniform - including removing my 6" NESA patch from the red jac-shirt. Why? Well, since I would change into uniform at work, and make the occaisonal stop at the market for bread/milk/what ever, I started to feel a little showey.

 

Now with a reduced-to-the minimum uniform and jacket, I feel the unit leaders that I serve are less likely to be overwhelmed by the insignia and emblems.

 

In my opinion, overwhelming a 23 year old mom who is a brand-new den leader can send the wrong message, where the correct message is "I am from the District, and my job is to help YOU be the best Den Leader you can!"

 

So... I suppose I am now in the "less is more" camp.

 

However - I'm not goign to lie, I did purchase the brand new poly/wool uniform that I have setup as my "District Dinner" uniform, and this baby has everybit of insignia and emblems that I am authorized to wear. There is a time and a place for this kind of thing.

 

Craig

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Well Beavah, remember when I absolved you of all sins due to your defense of the Catholic CHurch, well, the Lord Giveth and the Lord taketh away

 

You are on your own... again

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"However - I'm not goign to lie, I did purchase the brand new poly/wool uniform that I have setup as my "District Dinner" uniform, and this baby has everybit of insignia and emblems that I am authorized to wear. There is a time and a place for this kind of thing."

 

That's what I was getting at with my statement about a uniform with all of it. Glad someone else knows what I'm talking about there. :)

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Food for thought:

 

Taken from the Scoutmaster's Handbook, 5th edition, 1959.

 

"While Scouters may wear the insignia to which they are entitled, a 'total display' may not be in the best taste if the uniform looks overdecorated. Unauthorized insignia or incorrect wearing of authorized insignia is always wrong. Scouters must set the example for Scouts in this matter. The Scoutmaster who wears only his Scoutmaster emblem, council or community strip, troop numeral, and service star on his uniform is never guilty of poor taste."

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At National Jamboree, came across a guy who said he had earned 37 knots. He said he didn't think it was tasteful to display all the knots, so he normally just wore the 10 that were most meaningful to him.

 

I'm amused to ponder where he might fit in on the continuum described on this thread.

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I think it is a matter of perspective sometimes.

 

Try this example on for size. Where we live, folks (not just Scouts but the vast majority are) have the opportunity to earn a "medal", recognized by the BSA called the Chief Pontiac Trail medal. To earn the medal, one needs 17 mile I think, write an essay on Chief Pontiac (250 words minimum) and create/draw a map of the hike and keep a journal. If one does all that they earn the "right" to purchase a CPT medal. There are "pins" for summer, winter (slightly shorter) and a canoe hike - if one wants the trifecta.

 

Okay, the boys wanted to do this because its fun and it served as a preparation for a Double H trek. Three adults did the hike and 2 out of the three also did the other requirements. The one that did not said he had no interest in the medal, fair enough. Now, one could assume that the adults that did do the other requirements did so solely to earn the medal. But for myself, I did them because that is what we expected of the boys and I serve as a role model. My oldest son read my essay and was impressed. Keep in mind that for him writing the essay was a Herculean task but the two day trek with 40 lbs on his back was a piece of cake. For me, banging out 300 words on an intersting topic was easy, backpacking 17 miles was a different story.

 

At a COH a few months later, the organization came to present the medals and yes, I was a recepient. I don't think this takes away anything from the boys, I think it makes them feel that they accomplished something the adults did and instead of boring them, inspired them to some extent.

 

Now, how often do I wear that medal? I don't think I've worn it since the night I earned it. :)

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