How strict are you with the uniforms

[Hal_Crawford 15]

"The adult leadership seems to have absolute rigid flexibility with being strict on our uniforming policy. "

 

Huh?

[Crew21_Adv 25]

Hal,

 

Greetings!

 

Its suppose to be a joke, a play on words.. "The adult leadership seems to have absolute rigid flexibility with being strict on our uniforming policy."

 

How strict are you with the uniforms? was the topic question.. "Absolute rigid flexibility", I've often heard it in Scouting and on rare occasion at work. Also known as "Semper Gumby".

 

As a joke on words, usually means we have rules, but we are not always 100 percent compliant with the rules.

 

I quiet often would hear "absolute rigid flexibility" and "Semper Gumby" in Wood Badge training. I've occasionally heard, "We are 100 percent by the book!", followed by a "Except for this one minor change, We are 100 percent by the book!". Then a day later I would hear, "Except for this minor change and that minor change, we are 100 percent by the book!". Then at the end of Wood Badge I would hear, "Except for all these minor changes, we are 100 percent by the book!"

 

So my comment "The adult leadership seems to have absolute rigid flexibility with being strict on our uniforming policy." was meant to add a little humor to my response.

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

[Grayfeathers 10]

Thanks to all who responded. I didn't realize there were such a deversity in the uniform issue.

 

To respond to some of the comments; We are a boy led troop. We allow the boys to make most if not all the desisions. The leaders and myself are there mainly to make sure that the desisions are within reason. If I were to let the PLC or the troop make the decisions about the uniform it would be soccer shorts and muscle shirts. I was in scouts for only a short time in my youth and I was not in any branch of the military. However, my father, a Navy man, taught me to respect the uniform and the flag. I feel it my responsibility as a scoutmaster to teach the boys to respect the same and I do have the following of my fellow leaders.

 

All of my scouts are not what I'd call poor. They all have the money to purchase the uniforms and they do wear them during the COH but getting to wear them any other time is a chore. We have certain rules when it comes to uniforms such as wearing them while traveling to and from a campout or event, wearing the on the first and third meetings of the month, wearing them to dinner during summer camp, and PLC meetings. But when it's required to wear the uniform, it's the "Class A" and shorts.

 

I do appreciate all those who responded. I understand that there are those that think that there are "bigger fish to fry" but at the same time I feel that you should wear the complete uniform or not at all. I just wanted to know how everyone else thought of the subject and now I know.

 

Thanks again.

[resqman 108]

Class A is not an offically defined scout term but rather a military term. Typically when Class A is applied in a scout environment it means uniform shirt, uniform pants, neckerchief, scout socks. If a troop hat has been chosen, it is included.

 

Our troop wears scout uniform shirt, pants, socks and neckerchief to all troop meetings, COH, as well as travel to & from events. During campouts and summer camp, the boys change into "Class B" which we define as scout T-shirt, scout pants, and scout socks. Our troop does not have a designated hat.

 

During June, July and August the scoutmaster declares Class B is the uniform of the day for troop meetings. COH, travel to/from events and other formal events are still full uniform.

 

Scouts know that full uniforms are expected at all scout functions and wear the uniform. The usual suspects must be reminded to tuck in their shirts.

 

Just got back from taking 45 scouts and 6 adults to summer camp. Breakfast and Dinner meals they wore uniform shirt, pants, and neckerchief in 90 degree heat with 75% humidity. Also was worn to the 3 campwide campfires. The scouts knew the rules and followed them. Occasional grumbling from the same scouts all week about tucking in shirts. Half the of the troops at camp were full uniform troops. The other half were uniform shirts and whatever else you felt like.

 

We have troop T-shirts printed about every 12-18 months. We sold the newest shirts to the scouts in the parking lot while packing the trailer with summer camp trunks. Bright orange dry weave material with navy silk screen logo on front and back. Most scouts wore them 2 or 3 days during the week. Older scouts also wore troop t-shirts from earlier years. The orange shirts made it easy to pick out our troop members while walking about summer camp. The boys liked the recognition.

 

Troop adult leaders wore scout shorts, socks and scout related T-shirts every day at camp. Adult leaders showered and shaved every day at camp. Adult leaders stayed in the same tents as the boys all week. Our troop makes a concerted effort to lead by example. If the leaders cannot be bothered to wear the correct uniform, how can they expect the same of the scouts.

 

We maintain a uniform closet. We had two boys join the troop 2-3 weeks before summer camp. They were able to get uniform parts from the closet and had correct patches applied before they attended summer camp. They both also purchased troop T-shirts and wore them during summer camp. Immediate immersion.

[Chug 10]

I thought we were strict in our Unit. Here in the UK we don't have different classes of uniform, but as we are a RN recognised Explorer Sea Scout Unit we do expect it to be correct when it is worn. We don't wear uniform on camp, but we do have unit polo shirts which many of the Explorers wear.

[Eamonn 61]

"How strict are you with the uniforms"

How strict are you with the other methods?

 

I don't like all this talk about uniform police!

What a lot of old bunk!

Full and correct uniforming should be the goal of each and every Troop.

The uniform is the uniform and no unit, no leader, no PLC has the right to change it.

You are either in uniform or not in uniform. (This isn't rocket science!)

A uniform is not required to be a member of the BSA.

As I see it our role as adults is have full and proper uniforming as a goal.

How do we do that?

We look for and seek out opportunities that will allow the Scouts we serve to want to wear their uniform.

 

When OJ first joined Boy Scouts he really didn't have much choice in what he would and wouldn't wear.

If he had tried to get in the car to go to a meeting without his uniform,I would have sent him back to get dressed.

As he got older and started to drive himself to meetings the uniform became his Scout shirt on the passenger seat of the car.

He also became more and more active in the OA and his uniform became more important to him.

One OA weekend he was in charge of the flag ceremony and I stood back as he refused to allow Scouts who were not in full uniform to participate in the ceremony.

I was a little upset when he asked me to buy him the more expensive wool uniform, because it held a better crease!

All this renewed interest in his uniform came from him, not me!

Troops can do a lot to help Scouts own a uniform.

But at the end of the day it's down to the Scout when he will wear it.

Soon after the last Jamboree I was asked to attend an ESCOH.

The SM had been my ASM for the Jamboree and the Troop had sent a lot of Scouts to the Jamboree. All the Scouts had gone in full uniform. I was shocked when a few of these same Scouts were not wearing their uniforms! I knew for a fact that they owned them!

I'm not for sending Scouts home, when they don't have a uniform on.

I think we need to find out why they don't have it on?

Then work on fixing what is at fault.

While we can't make changes to the uniform. Units can decide when and where they are going to wear the uniform.

Could it be that maybe we ask the Scouts to wear it too often or too much? A PLC can decide when it should be worn.

 

Wearing my parent hat!

I don't care what changes have been made to the uniform to make it more "Outdoor Friendly".

The fact that it costs more than anything else in my sons wardrobe, means that I'm not going to be happy when he wears it when the chances are that it is going to get ruined.

Like it or not, I'm still going to send him out with an outfit that didn't cost over $100.00.

Eamonn

[BadenP 93]

Eamonns last point in his post about sending his boy out with a uniform costing under $100 brings up a valid point. There should be an inexpensive casual style uniform for camping and summer camp, and outdoor activity purposes costing less than $50. The dress uniform could then be reserved for meetings, ceremonies, and other special functions only, eliminating the chance of it becoming ruined at camp. Why does a boy have to be in full dress uniform at summer camp anyway, what purpose does it really serve when a leisure uniform would serve the same purpose? Some old timers will say its because thats the way it has always been done which is plain nonsense, it really is due to the fact that it feeds some leaders egos to parade his boys around like his private platoon, they can't seem to think outside the box. Some who quote the uniform method don't really seem to understand it anyway.

[Eagle92 110]

I admit I'm one of the old fogeys who likes wearing the complete uniform to flag lowerings/dinner and the closing cmapfire at summer camp. Yep part of it is thje "that's the way it's been done" but also for me it's a pride thing. In my troop we were proud to wear the uniform, necker and all, at meals b/c it enhanced our visibilty. Also different awards would be given out at that time, and havign the uniforn on, with our distinctive neckers, gave us a good feeling.

 

As for an activity uniform for outdoors, the BSA did that in the 1990s that consisted of khaki shorts and a red polo for Scouts, khaki polo for Varsity, and maroon polo for Venture crews, renamed venture patrols since Venturing came out in '98. It was not a success as some parent's complaing that it was yet another uniform item to buy. Most of the troops I knew of in that period stuch with the field uniform with a troop t-shirt instead of the uniform shirt

[highcountry 13]

I pick my battles, uniforming is not one of the higher priorities, however, uniforming with my troop has greatly improved since I took over as SM 3 years ago and I do use some mechanisms (Occasional Uniform inspections with patrol points awarded, encourage my sons to wear full uniform to meetings and important events)to try to always improve uniforming in the troop. I am happy we have greatly improved use of the uniform but I have bigger fish to fry, if the Uniform Police wast to get up tight about it fine for them, we are too busy having fun and concentrating on more productive things.

 

When I took over, almost no one wore any part of the uniform. Today I have almost 100% wearing at least a class A shirt to troop meetings. I have several who wear pretty much the entire uniform, others might wear casual pants of green or kahki that look decent. Yes I too still have a number of kids wearing Ball caps on backwards, shirts not tucked in, kids with swim trunks and flip flops to meetings etc. The SPL and PL's remind them but some kids don't change. We always have them wear at least the class A shirt to Opening flags and Dinner at Summer camp as well as going to Summer Camp (If the drive is within 3 hours from home), they are requested to wear the uniform at troop meetings and it is expected at COH and ECOH. We don't wear them to local campouts, hikes, backpackers etc. No point in having to change when you arrive at a campsite on a Friday evening with less than 2 hrs to set up camp etc. Don't need to add the wear and tear and extra washings for a uniform only seen by those who ride together in a car.