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Insignia Guide and Embroidered Knots

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And for my last commentary, after proving I am perhaps not using my time in the wisest possible fashion, Ill look at the Medals and Embroidered Knots page.


The Asian American Spirit of Scouting Service Award has a typo, assuming the writer was not trying to write with a Japanese accent. Im surprised that leff pocket made it past spell-check.


I like having all the knots on the back page. Actually, its not all the knots. There are 39 knots and only 30 are on the back cover. I guess thats ok the back cover isnt strictly necessary. Its odd that the back cover is in a completely different order from the interior list, though. Maybe its just for artistic impression.


Id like to see a comment on whether rows of two knots should be centered or not. Even if it just said rows of two may be worn left-justified or centered at the wearers discretion, that would resolve some discussions.


I think the religious youth knot and the religious adult knot should be listed separately.


The devices mentioned in the footnote provide one oddity. A Boy Scout, not in the Venturing program, can earn the Venturing device. In this case, the Venturing device represents earning the award as an older Boy Scout since there is no other appropriate device (you want to somehow distinguish it from the younger Boy Scout award). Perhaps even a bit stranger is that a Varsity Scout would also earn the Venturing device. This is stranger because there is in fact a Varsity device that could serve this purpose.


There are six devices listed for the Scouters Training Award and the Scouters Key. I think it would be useful to include a picture of a knot with multiple devices on it (either do it of one of these awards or of the youth religious award). I also could find no mention anywhere of a District Committee Training Award, only the District Committee Key. Does such a training award really exist? And would six devices really fit on one knot? Id think youd want the devices to stay within the borders of the knot, but I guess if youve actually earned all six, we could cut you some slack.


And why is the Venturing Advisor Award of Merit listed separately? Its the same knot as the Scoutmasters Award of Merit. We dont list the keys or the training awards separately, so why treat the award of merit differently? And there is a Varsity Coach Award of Merit and its not listed here at all, which adds to the idea that they should all be listed under one knot.


That's all for now. Going back into hibernation at this time...

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Sorry MVScouter,

There is no such thing as a Venturing Patrol. The correct term is a Venture Patrol. It is part of the Boy Scout Program. So, if the scout earned the Religious Award while a part of a Venture Patrol, he would wear the Boy Scout Device.


If he earned it while registered as a Venturer in a Venturing Crew, he would wear a Venturing Device.


Two separate programs/divisions of BSA.

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Youth religious award devices: The youth religious knot may be further identified as to level by the wear of a miniature pin-on device. The first-level program is identified by the Cub Scout device and the second by the Webelos device. The third-level uses the Boy Scout device. The fourth-level program for Venturers, senior Boy Scouts and senior Varsity Scouts is recognized by the use of the Venturer device, regardless of the program division of the youth.


The reason for this usage is that the levels for many of the programs do not match the BSA program levels. For example: The Methodist God and Country program has four youth levels God and Me grade 13 (Cub Scout device), God and Family grades 45(Webelos device) God and Church grades 68 (Boy Scout device) and God and Life grades 912 (Venturer device). Technically, the Varsity Scout and Sea Scout devices are not used.



The Insignis Guide is not quite correct on some of the devices used:


Scouter's Training Award

* Cub Scout Leader's Training Award for those who earned it before 1988

* Boy Scout Leader's Training Award for the Scoutmaster, assistant Scoutmasters, troop committee chairman and troop committee members

* Varsity Scout Leader's Training Award for the Coach, assistant Coach, team committee chairman, team committee member

* Venturing Leader's Training Award for the Advisor, associate Advisors, crew committee chairman and crew committee members

* Sea Scout Leader's Training Award for the Skipper, mates, ship committee chairman and ship committee members

* Roundtable Staff Training Award for the Cub Scout, Boy Scout, Varsity Scout and Venturing roundtable staff


Scouter's Key / Skipper's Key

* Cubmaster's Key for those who earned it before 1988

* Scoutmaster's Key

* Varsity Scout Coach's Key

* Venturing Advisor's Key

* Skipper's Key

* Commissioner's Key for roundtable commissioners, district commissioner, assistant district commissioners, unit commissioners, council commissioner and assistant council commissioners

* District Committee's Key for the district committee chairman and members


The Cub Scouting program used these awards until 1988 when they split them into what is now six separate awards. Note that the Skipper's Key now uses a different medal, but the same knot. I have no idea why there is no Award of Merit for Cub Scouting or Sea Scouting. I don't know why there is no Council Committee's Key.


Here are some images:


Scouter's Training Award:



Scouters Key:



Skipper's Key:



Award of Merit:


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I don't mean this to seem like we're picking on you MVScouter, but there is no training award for round table commissioners or any other type of commissioners. I believe there used to be, but there isn't now. There are training awards for round table staff though. The "training" award for commissioners is the Arrowhead award.



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I think that due to the size of the clips, you can only fit 4 devices on a knot. I have earned Training award more times, but, the overall rule is that you never wear more than 1 of a knot. So I just don't wear the extra devices. Hope I'm doing this right?

Also, there are different plaques you earn as a Commisioner, but only 1 knot and no devices? What do Commisioners do if they earn the Commisioners Distinguished service award more than once, or is this even possible?

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> no training award for round table commissioners or any other type of commissioners


It depends on whether you consider roundtable staff to be commissioners. In our council, roundtable staff are part of commissioner service; I think other (probably larger) councils may consider them to be district staff. I have not seen any clear guidance on this.





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I don't consider roundtable staff commissioners, however, I do consider them part of commissioner service. Like I mentioned, the "training" award for commissioners is the Arrowhead award. Roundtable staff are not eligible to earn the Arrowhead award, however they are eligible to earn the training award.



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Anybody else noticed that of all Oak Tree's Insignia Guide threads, the one about knots has gone on the longest. :p


Yah, there's probably a lesson there somewhere.


Maybe knots are like Insurance? :)




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Related question,but cannot find answer. Can someone tell me where on my adult scout uniform ,(comm.member in troop)can I wear the Father's eagle pin presented to me by my son at his Eagle ceremony? Is this time only atCOH and apecial times.

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Yah, hi webdog!


It's not an Insignia Guide official uniform item, eh?


I'd say pick a spot and wear it with pride. I reckon that took a lot more effort to earn than any embroidered knot, eh? :)




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